1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 22 Sep 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 520       Contents:  "SHOW DEVICE /FULL tape:" quirk?$ Re: "SHOW DEVICE /FULL tape:" quirk? Re: BACKUP$MANAGER Question % disk drive size for alpha 2100 system ) Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system ) Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system ) Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system ) Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system , Re: DSPP: Delete Successful Product Programs: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable  Re: Keyboard question... Re: Keyboard question... Re: Keyboard question... Re: Keyboard question... RE: Problems with Python tests, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS Re: zx2000 ? Re: zx2000 ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:30:23 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)) Subject: "SHOW DEVICE /FULL tape:" quirk? 2 Message-ID: <06092122302390_20200290@antinode.org>  C    So, there I was with my new (to me) $10 DLT drive (faster than a D TK50, it is), when I made the mistake of actually reading the output from SHOW DEVICE /FULL ...      Mounted:   P Magtape ALP2$MKB200:, device type Quantum DLT4000 CPQ DRV, is online, allocated,J     deallocate on dismount, mounted foreign, record-oriented device, file-I     oriented device, served to cluster via TMSCP Server, error logging is H     enabled, controller supports compaction (compaction enabled), device     supports fastskip (per_io).       Not mounted:   M Magtape ALP2$MKB200:, device type Quantum DLT4000 CPQ DRV, is online, record- N     oriented device, file-oriented device, served to cluster via TMSCP Server,H     error logging is enabled, controller supports compaction (compaction/     nabled), device supports fastskip (per_io).         "(compaction nabled)"???     >    VMS Alpha V8.2 shown above.  Things look similar at V7.3-2:  P Magtape ALP$MKB200:, device type EXABYTE EXB-85058HE-0000, is online, allocated,J     deallocate on dismount, mounted foreign, record-oriented device, file-I     oriented device, served to cluster via TMSCP Server, error logging is G     enabled, device is busy, controller supports compaction (compaction /     nabled), device supports fastskip (per_io).   C (Of course, the activity LED on the Eliant drive always shows green ? instead of amber, so it seems unlikely that it's actually doing  compaction.)  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:11:30 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>- Subject: Re: "SHOW DEVICE /FULL tape:" quirk? ) Message-ID: <SnJQg.3511$Fh.2133@trnddc07>    Steven M. Schweda wrote:E >    So, there I was with my new (to me) $10 DLT drive (faster than a F > TK50, it is), when I made the mistake of actually reading the output > from SHOW DEVICE /FULL ... > 
 >    Mounted:  > R > Magtape ALP2$MKB200:, device type Quantum DLT4000 CPQ DRV, is online, allocated,L >     deallocate on dismount, mounted foreign, record-oriented device, file-K >     oriented device, served to cluster via TMSCP Server, error logging is J >     enabled, controller supports compaction (compaction enabled), device! >     supports fastskip (per_io).  >  >    Not mounted:  > O > Magtape ALP2$MKB200:, device type Quantum DLT4000 CPQ DRV, is online, record- P >     oriented device, file-oriented device, served to cluster via TMSCP Server,J >     error logging is enabled, controller supports compaction (compaction1 >     nabled), device supports fastskip (per_io).  >  >  >    "(compaction nabled)"???  >  > @ >    VMS Alpha V8.2 shown above.  Things look similar at V7.3-2: > R > Magtape ALP$MKB200:, device type EXABYTE EXB-85058HE-0000, is online, allocated,L >     deallocate on dismount, mounted foreign, record-oriented device, file-K >     oriented device, served to cluster via TMSCP Server, error logging is I >     enabled, device is busy, controller supports compaction (compaction 1 >     nabled), device supports fastskip (per_io).  > E > (Of course, the activity LED on the Eliant drive always shows green A > instead of amber, so it seems unlikely that it's actually doing  > compaction.) >     H It's a practical demonstation of data compaction.  You don't really needK that "e" to understand the drive status and can reconstruct it if necessary ' from an ASCII character table.  :-) :-)   J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 5 >    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 6 >    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818 >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2006 19:50:46 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com $ Subject: Re: BACKUP$MANAGER Question, Message-ID: <eeuqem01c84@enews4.newsguy.com>   Ian Miller <ijm@uk2.net> wrote: 7 > I always wondered if anyone ever used BACKUP$MANAGER.    I use it occasionally.  I > As long as it does not init the tape then BACKUP should skip forward to E > the end of the last backup before it starts writing. I would try an ! > experiment to check this first.   K I'll have to either experiment with a couple Incrementals, or pick a couple  small directories.   		Zane   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2006 18:28:42 -0700  From: "H" <hvanderw@comcast.net>. Subject: disk drive size for alpha 2100 systemA Message-ID: <1158888522.116922.66530@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   C Can anyone tell me the maximum size disk I can use on an Alpha 2100  system? F I currently have 6 2gb drives (1 JBOD & 5 in a raid 5 config) I have 5D 9.1 RZ1Ds that I would like to use but I can not get them to init in& the raid controler software (RCA2300U)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:47:02 -0400 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>2 Subject: Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system) Message-ID: <qgHQg.177$2g4.59@dukeread09>    H wrote:E > Can anyone tell me the maximum size disk I can use on an Alpha 2100 	 > system? H > I currently have 6 2gb drives (1 JBOD & 5 in a raid 5 config) I have 5F > 9.1 RZ1Ds that I would like to use but I can not get them to init in( > the raid controler software (RCA2300U)  : I have seen 9 GB's working in a 2100 with RAID controller.  8 I do not remember what RAID controller - the awfully one1 where you config by booting a floppy in ARC mode.    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:51:14 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 2 Subject: Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system: Message-ID: <-b6dnX0Jx88F3I7YnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@comcast.com>   H wrote:  E > Can anyone tell me the maximum size disk I can use on an Alpha 2100 	 > system? H > I currently have 6 2gb drives (1 JBOD & 5 in a raid 5 config) I have 5F > 9.1 RZ1Ds that I would like to use but I can not get them to init in( > the raid controler software (RCA2300U) >   E I can't say that I've EVER heard of an RCA2300U RAID controller!  Is  " that a DEC product or third party?  F Disks of that era were SCSI 2: RZ26 (1GB) RZ28 (2GB) and, maybe, RZ29 G (4GB). A -VA suffix designated narrow and a -VW, wide, SCSI.  I'd say,  I though, that it is not a matter of what an Alphaserver 2100 supports but  3 rather a matter of what disks an RCA2300U supports.   H RZ1Dx drives are Ultra Wide SCSI and I would not expect them to work on ) hardware of the Alphaserver 2100 vintage.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2006 19:27:47 -0700  From: "H" <hvanderw@comcast.net>2 Subject: Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 systemC Message-ID: <1158892067.737106.162550@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    sorry,@ The disk controller is the standard one that comes with the 2100  C  RC200RCU that is the console utility that I am using to config the  disks    BTW the 9.1 GB drives are -VW  the old ones are rz28-vas      Richard B. Gilbert wrote: 
 > H wrote: > G > > Can anyone tell me the maximum size disk I can use on an Alpha 2100  > > system? J > > I currently have 6 2gb drives (1 JBOD & 5 in a raid 5 config) I have 5H > > 9.1 RZ1Ds that I would like to use but I can not get them to init in* > > the raid controler software (RCA2300U) > >  > F > I can't say that I've EVER heard of an RCA2300U RAID controller!  Is$ > that a DEC product or third party? > G > Disks of that era were SCSI 2: RZ26 (1GB) RZ28 (2GB) and, maybe, RZ29 H > (4GB). A -VA suffix designated narrow and a -VW, wide, SCSI.  I'd say,J > though, that it is not a matter of what an Alphaserver 2100 supports but5 > rather a matter of what disks an RCA2300U supports.  > I > RZ1Dx drives are Ultra Wide SCSI and I would not expect them to work on + > hardware of the Alphaserver 2100 vintage.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 23:30:36 -0400 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 2 Subject: Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 systemI Message-ID: <8660a3a10609212030r6a371a4bhef09fabd1729c179@mail.gmail.com>   ' ------=_Part_22502_363990.1158895836752 ; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   2 On 9/21/06, Arne Vajh=F8j <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote: > 
 > H wrote:G > > Can anyone tell me the maximum size disk I can use on an Alpha 2100  > > system? J > > I currently have 6 2gb drives (1 JBOD & 5 in a raid 5 config) I have 5H > > 9.1 RZ1Ds that I would like to use but I can not get them to init in* > > the raid controler software (RCA2300U) > < > I have seen 9 GB's working in a 2100 with RAID controller. > : > I do not remember what RAID controller - the awfully one3 > where you config by booting a floppy in ARC mode.  >  > Arne       SWXCRs.   0 The acronym is most often preceded by profanity.   Repeat after me.  , SWXCRs are evil and should all be destroyed.   WWWebb     --=20  Ajilon Consulting  Site resident at Quest Diagnostics = first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,"COMPRESS").com   ' ------=_Part_22502_363990.1158895836752 + Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   L <br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 9/21/06, <b class=3D"gmail_send=L ername">Arne Vajh=F8j</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk">arne@vajho=L ej.dk</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"borde=L r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-le=
 ft: 1ex;">L H wrote:<br>&gt; Can anyone tell me the maximum size disk I can use on an A=L lpha 2100<br>&gt; system?<br>&gt; I currently have 6 2gb drives (1 JBOD &am=L p; 5 in a raid 5 config) I have 5<br>&gt; 9.1 RZ1Ds that I would like to us=# e but I can not get them to init in L <br>&gt; the raid controler software (RCA2300U)<br><br>I have seen 9 GB's w=L orking in a 2100 with RAID controller.<br><br>I do not remember what RAID c=L ontroller - the awfully one<br>where you config by booting a floppy in ARC = mode. L <br><br>Arne</blockquote><div><br><br>SWXCRs.&nbsp; <br><br>The acronym is =L most often preceded by profanity.<br><br>Repeat after me. <br><br>SWXCRs ar=L e evil and should all be destroyed. <br></div><br></div>WWWebb<br><br clear=	 =3D"all"> L <br>-- <br>Ajilon Consulting<br>Site resident at <br>Quest Diagnostics<br>f=F irst.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,&quot;COMPRESS&quot;).com  ) ------=_Part_22502_363990.1158895836752--    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 03:24:39 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>5 Subject: Re: DSPP: Delete Successful Product Programs ) Message-ID: <XHIQg.3506$Fh.1585@trnddc07>    JF Mezei wrote: # > VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > O >>No more SDK!  No more access to OpenVMS distros.  No more 3rd party products.  >  > G > is this an Alpha thing, or does this change cover both Alpha and that H > IA64 thing ? Since HP is about to stop Alpha sales,  the portfolion ofF > Alpha apps is no longer relevant to HP since they aren't going to be, > showcasing this to any potential customer. >  > G > And in terms of the reaction to this, my guess is that contacting Sue  > might be the best avenue.   F We have a support contract on our Alphas so it doesn't directly effectI me (except I no longer get multiple copies of each quarter's LP condist), F but I'm pretty sure they said you could order a single copy of the VMSF distribution and a single copy of the latest condist whenever you wantE to with a hefty DSPP discount (25%, maybe).  I think the total worked G out pretty close to the $5-600 it used to cost for DSPP membership plus E SDK.  I haven't tried to do this, maybe HP doesn't know they sell VMS  or condists.  :-)      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 02:32:27 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>C Subject: Re: FREE DS10L Starting at 3:20pm Friday 15th September 06 ( Message-ID: <%WHQg.3501$Fh.840@trnddc07>   Nigel Barker wrote: Q > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 06:10:00 -0700, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> wrote:  >  > I >>On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:34:38 -0700, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>    >>wrote: >> >>A >>>But you got me thinking.  He was running a DS10.  My limited   K >>>understanding is that the major difference between that and a DS10L is   I >>>the size of the box, number of PCI slots, and such.  Now he comes up   J >>>with a bunch of DS10L systems.  Is it possible to replace some of the  I >>>hardware in the DS10 box with DS10L stuff and possibly get a working   H >>>DS10 again?  Are the PCI sockets on the motherboard?  Just wondering. >>>  >>F >>This has come up before and I believe someone said you could put theG >>riser card in the DS10L, of course, you could close the cover.  It is 
 >>what it is.  >  > N > The DS10 & DS10L motherboards are identical. The DS10 has a 4 slot PCI riserR > card. It also has riser cards for the memory so that the sticks can be installedQ > horizontally. To convert from the DS10L to DS10 you would require a larger case N > & power supply. Superficially it looks like I could cram a DS10L into an oldO > Alphastation 500 case that I have here (it has the 4 slot PCI riser card too)  > but I could be wrong.  >   ; Umm, I think he has a larger case -- the old, broken? DS10!   J IIRC, David T. had a DS10 for his web site (or maybe his mail server), and3 it broke, so he moved the apps to a Windows system.   I I think the idea Dave F. was driving at is that David T. could canibalize L one of his many DS10L's to fix his DS10.  If the motherboards are identical, this sounds viable.     P > I read this too late to enter the raffle but as I already have a DS10L I don't > feel too bad:-)  >   D Me too!  (too late for the raffle)  But I have a brand-new rx2620...   > -- > Nigel Barker! > Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:15:32 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L, Message-ID: <4512D6C3.D0CDD717@teksavvy.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:E >    How about keeping the 3100-30 and using it as an X11 server?  We D >    did this with several VAXstations when we got our first Alphas.    H The X software on the VAX version of VMS is ancient and does not support some newer X features.    G Since VAX isn't getting new development, then I have to switch to Alpha H with a priority for those pieces that lag the most. (aka, stuff I cannot8 run on a VAX, most of which is now interactive/X stuff).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:16:34 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L* Message-ID: <4512F322.4060305@comcast.net>   JF Mezei wrote: I > Being the proud winner of a brand new used DS10L,  I must now plan  how 1 > to integrate this into my hobbyist data centre.  > F > One option is to replace my 3100-30.  This means that I would need a > graphics card for the DS10L. > > > Does anyone have comments on the cards available on Island ? > ' > http://www.islandco.com/graphics.html  >  <snip>J > Also, I'll be buying a SCSI card (needed to plug in a CD drive initiallyG > to load VMS onto the baby). Island suggested the KZPBA-CA.  Is this a H > full featured SCSI card I will be able to boot from, or is that one ofD > those retrictive Digital products with very limited functionlity ? >   D The KZPBA-CA is a single ended Ultra SCSI card.  ISTR it's a 68 pin C connector on the bulkead with both a 68 pin and a 50 pin connector  H internally. I have a couple of these but they are installed and I'm not ( about to take the machine apart to look!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:27:39 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L: Message-ID: <KMqdnZjhe41daI_YnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@comcast.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Rich Jordan wrote: > H >>There is only one PCI slot, so you can either have your SCSI card or a >>video card but not both. >  > F > I am aware of this. If this machine is to be a workstation, then theF > SCSI card will only be installed initially to load the VMS operatingH > system. (after that, it will be able to access CDs from the cluster). I > And if this is to become a server, then  it won't be an issue since the  > SCSI card could remain.  > J > And when I buy a second DS10L, then one definitely becomes a workstationF > and one a server, one with a graphics card and one with a SCSI card. >  > A >>card.  You could install SCSI for better performance and forego  >>graphics.  >  > E > My VAX  4000-600 is plenty powerful and has plenty of memory for my D > needs right now as a server. Having a faster workstation with realI > colours (as opposed to 8 bit colour on the SPX graphgics card) would be I > a very visible upgrade, as would having the Alpha version of DECWINDOWS K > with scalable fonts, font server etc. (all missing from the VAX version).  > H > So it appears to me that upgrading the workstation first would provide > the most advantages. >  > C > Would it be fair to state that 256meg of RAM on an Alpha would be ) > roughly equivalent to 64 meg on a VAX ?   G It's a VERY rough equivalence.  The executable instructions tend to be  I abour 3-4 times the size of the the same code in VAX binary but the data  F should be the same size.  64MB is about the bare minumum for an Alpha C (although I think you could buy one with as little as 32MB).  I've  G juiced up my Alphastation 200 4/233 to 96MB and my Alphastation 600 to   256MB.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2006 14:10:35 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10LB Message-ID: <1158873035.701864.39740@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote: K > > Being the proud winner of a brand new used DS10L,  I must now plan  how 3 > > to integrate this into my hobbyist data centre.  > > H > > One option is to replace my 3100-30.  This means that I would need a  > > graphics card for the DS10L. > > @ > > Does anyone have comments on the cards available on Island ? > > ) > > http://www.islandco.com/graphics.html  > >  > <snip>L > > Also, I'll be buying a SCSI card (needed to plug in a CD drive initiallyI > > to load VMS onto the baby). Island suggested the KZPBA-CA.  Is this a J > > full featured SCSI card I will be able to boot from, or is that one ofF > > those retrictive Digital products with very limited functionlity ? > >  > E > The KZPBA-CA is a single ended Ultra SCSI card.  ISTR it's a 68 pin D > connector on the bulkead with both a 68 pin and a 50 pin connectorI > internally. I have a couple of these but they are installed and I'm not * > about to take the machine apart to look!  E It does.  Use either the external or the internal connectors, but not  both at the same time.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2006 21:49:07 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L, Message-ID: <eev1cj02ka5@enews1.newsguy.com>  . JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:J > Also, I'll be buying a SCSI card (needed to plug in a CD drive initiallyG > to load VMS onto the baby). Island suggested the KZPBA-CA.  Is this a H > full featured SCSI card I will be able to boot from, or is that one ofD > those retrictive Digital products with very limited functionlity ?  I Personally I recommend getting the KZPBA-CA and skipping the video card.  I You've only got one slot, and I think it would work best headless, with a I nice SCSI card.  That way you don't have to use an IDE HD.  The KZPBA can - handle both 50-pin Narrow and 68-pin UW SCSI.   L Of course, I don't know what I'm talking about since I don't own a DS10L :^)K This is just based on my experience with a PWS433au and XP1000 used in that  manner.    			Zane    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 03:07:34 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10LZ Message-ID: <rdeininger-2109062307370001@dialup-4.233.149.85.dial1.manchester1.level3.net>  F In article <KMqdnZjhe41daI_YnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B.( Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:   >JF Mezei wrote: >    D >> Would it be fair to state that 256meg of RAM on an Alpha would be* >> roughly equivalent to 64 meg on a VAX ? > H >It's a VERY rough equivalence.  The executable instructions tend to be J >abour 3-4 times the size of the the same code in VAX binary but the data G >should be the same size.  64MB is about the bare minumum for an Alpha  D >(although I think you could buy one with as little as 32MB).  I've H >juiced up my Alphastation 200 4/233 to 96MB and my Alphastation 600 to  >256MB.   J A number of Alpha systems were sold with 32 MB of memory back in the day. H I've seen indications of 16 MB systems in developement, but I don't haveF anything at hand that indicates they actually shipped with that little memory.   F During the V8.3 endgame, I had a DEC 3000-700 running as a single nodeJ cluster with DECnet and TCPIP.  (No DECwindows.)  It was running fine withI 40 MB, with obvious problems at 36 MB.  I didn't take the time to see how H low I could go by turning off clustering and/or networks.  I also didn'tH do any manual tuning.  I just ran AUTOGEN after every memory reduction. H I'd be fairly surprised if V8.3 wouldn't run at or below 32 MB on Alpha.  G I'm sure VMS I64 V8.3 would NOT run with 64 MB of memory. :-)  IIRC the H firmware wants more than that.  But the smallest memory configuration inJ the smallest supported Integrity server (the rx1600) is 512 MB, so there's	 no worry.   G The new rx3600 and rx6600 systems start out at 2 GB of memory, which is  kind of mind-boggling.  F The minimum memory requirements for VMS 8086 haven't been established.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:39:51 -0400 , From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>( Subject: Re: hp VMS Web site unavailable, Message-ID: <4512b247$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  J yes it does but sending me an alert that there is a network issue won't do	 anything. I they get the alerts and get things fixed. if it's a staged recovery (like  needing to replace, some physical device) they recover in order.  9 If something happens to the system itself I get notified.    -warren   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:4511F80F.2C5067A4@teksavvy.com... > warren sander wrote:I > > the room where the site lives is a 24/7 data center. but on a list of  > > priorites for L > > that center the OpenVMS server is not in the top 10 or probably even top 50.  >  > I > Does that data centre have any network monitoring software running that G > sends alarms to operates when something is not reacheable ?  I assume G > this is an original Digital site ? Wouldn't there be other "DEC" gear  > running there ?  > J > If your local LAN is separate from the internet lan, perhaps your systemJ > could try to ping some external system at regular intervals, and if thatH > fails, then you use the internal lan to send some warning/message/beep > to the operators ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:49:14 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ! Subject: Re: Keyboard question... 9 Message-ID: <jYqdncSidZ5QU4_YnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote: I > Looking at DS10 documents, it appears I can get a LK461-AC keyboard for ; > my new (used) DS10L. This is the french canadian variant.  > J > 1- Are keycaps physically interchangheable between real LK201 and LK 461F > keyboards ? (so I could be a standard english keyboard and then justJ > swap my french canadian ALLIN1  LK201-BQ keycaps onto the 461 keyboard).= > (I suspect the answer is "NO", but I had to ask anyways...)  >  > J > 2- is there any place where I can see a detailed picture of what a LK461G > looks like ?   The keyboard is a very "personal" item that interfaces F > with your fingers. Blindly buying one is similar to buying underwear/ > without even checking if they fit :-) :-) :-)   G The LK401 and earlier (VT420 and earlier) used an RJ type plug and key  H switches with vertical contacts.  The keyboards used with VT510, VT520, H and VT525 terminals use PS2 plugs and use two flat sheets of something. G   The keys physically push the sheets together to make contact.  Looks  G cheap at first, but durable and easy to clean (if you're careful).  No  H metal parts to corrode.  All the later keyboards I've seen still retain + their ergonomic design and are easy to use.   G As for cleaning, except for the wires and contacts, it's just plastic.  H Rather rugged and as long as you don't use something that will dissolve I the plastic you're Ok.  Oh, they are not MaCaw proof.  But then what is?  ;   I'm still looking for a few keys for one of my keyboards.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 07:34:37 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>! Subject: Re: Keyboard question... , Message-ID: <451278d2$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:451231B1.B1523B21@teksavvy.com...I > Looking at DS10 documents, it appears I can get a LK461-AC keyboard for ; > my new (used) DS10L. This is the french canadian variant.  > J > 1- Are keycaps physically interchangheable between real LK201 and LK 461F > keyboards ? (so I could be a standard english keyboard and then justJ > swap my french canadian ALLIN1  LK201-BQ keycaps onto the 461 keyboard).= > (I suspect the answer is "NO", but I had to ask anyways...)  >  > J > 2- is there any place where I can see a detailed picture of what a LK461G > looks like ?   The keyboard is a very "personal" item that interfaces F > with your fingers. Blindly buying one is similar to buying underwear/ > without even checking if they fit :-) :-) :-)   H All of the LK200/400 keyboards feature the same keyboard layout with theJ exception of the Japanese, German DIN (ISO) and the PC layout (LK443/444).C The only difference between them is the engravings on the keyboard.   L However, the LK200 and LK400 are from different manufacturers with diferenceB mechanics and the keys themselves can't be popped off and swapped.  K Aside from the color and logo - you can look at almost any DEC layout LK400 " and see what the others look like.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2006 11:58:43 -0700; From: "William.W.Webb@gmail.com" <William.W.Webb@gmail.com> ! Subject: Re: Keyboard question... C Message-ID: <1158865123.916848.287560@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Bob Blunt wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: K > > Looking at DS10 documents, it appears I can get a LK461-AC keyboard for = > > my new (used) DS10L. This is the french canadian variant.  > > L > > 1- Are keycaps physically interchangheable between real LK201 and LK 461H > > keyboards ? (so I could be a standard english keyboard and then justL > > swap my french canadian ALLIN1  LK201-BQ keycaps onto the 461 keyboard).? > > (I suspect the answer is "NO", but I had to ask anyways...)  > >  > > L > > 2- is there any place where I can see a detailed picture of what a LK461I > > looks like ?   The keyboard is a very "personal" item that interfaces H > > with your fingers. Blindly buying one is similar to buying underwear1 > > without even checking if they fit :-) :-) :-)  > F > A LK461 is the exact same layout as the original LK401 but has a PS2J > interface.  If you have an old LK401 then you know the look and feel.  II > didn't look up the details of the model you quoted, so I can't tell you C > if it's "frost white," light beige or black.  I'm also taking for H > granted that your comment that this is a French Canadian variant.  TheH > current iteration of these keyboards are usually "value engineered" soD > some of the parts may NOT interchange between the original non-PS2> > keyboards of the VT200/300/400 era and the current VT500 andJ > AlphaStation variants.  The most recent models may also sport a "warning5 > label" discussing keyboard use and stress injuries.  > H > I would also expect that swapping keys between a LK201 and LK461 mightD > not work.  I would definitely handle the keys with extreme care toJ > prevent any risk of ending up with a non-functioning keyboard because of
 >   breakage.  >  > bob   " Hi, Bob, fancy meeting you here...   WWWebb   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:42:47 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>! Subject: Re: Keyboard question... * Message-ID: <4512a4e9@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Bob Blunt wrote:  G > A LK461 is the exact same layout as the original LK401 but has a PS2  K > interface.  If you have an old LK401 then you know the look and feel.  I  J > didn't look up the details of the model you quoted, so I can't tell you / > if it's "frost white," light beige or black.    M    LK201, LK250, LK401, LK411, LK412, LK421, LK450, LK461 beige, LK46W frost  Q white, and LK463 black.  (That's a list sorted by color, NOT a list by connector  O or by layout!)  (And I don't recall off-hand if the VT100/VT101/VT102 keyboard  O had a separate part number, but the terminal and its keyboard was beige/putty.)   P    I'd expect some keyboard pairings to allow parts exchanges (akin to swapping L parts between the LK401 and its WPS equivalent LK402, for instance, and the J LK411 and the WPS LK412), but there can easily be differences between the F generations, and possibly even across variants in the same generation.  L    These keyboards were not ever intended to be user-reparable, nor to have L keycaps swapped around.  (Yes, more than a few of us have performed various * keyboard surgeries over the years, but...)  Q    I'll see about doing a table of the keyboards and connections, as I don't see  M that collected and available anywhere.  (Though I'm not even going to try to  P remember, to determine no list any sort of keycap cross-compatibility. Cranking > time back as far as the VT100 made my head hurt enough.  :-) )   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:44:42 +0930 < From: "Barratt, Chris \(FMC\)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au>' Subject: RE: Problems with Python tests R Message-ID: <062C11A882E0C749A3CFD62BA461167A06FF4020@hadaltmail.althad.sa.gov.au>   Hi JF,  J Sorry not to get back to you earlier, but this is just a spare-time sort = of project.   H When you say you have posted a newer version, can you be more specific =G with the version. The one that I installed is Python 2.5b3 and has an = B August 8th date on it.  Is there a more recent version than this ?   Regards, Chris=20   > -----Original Message-----F > From: Jean-Fran=E7ois Pi=E9ronne [mailto:jf.pieronne@laposte.net]=20* > Sent: Wednesday, 30 August 2006 10:00 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) > Subject: Re: Problems with Python tests  >=20 > Chris, > > Hi,  > > =20 A > > One of my colleagues wishes to play with Python on VMS, so=20 
 > I installed ? > > the 2.5.0 kit on my workstation (500au, VMS 7.3-2, TCPIP=20  > Services 5.4 - > > ECO 5). B > > The installation was a bit flakey, but seems to have worked=20 > the 2nd time > > around.  > > =20  >=20H > I have just put online a new Python250 kit which contains a workaroundF > for a C compiler bug which can crash the interpreter during a Python > script compilation. , > It fix some of the problems you mentioned.G > It also contain some new libraries like rpdb2 which allow to remotely D > debug a Python script running on VMS using a graphical debugger on( > Windows. Very useful to debug servlet. >=20A > > When I run the tests, however, I get 10 that return errors=20  > - whereas the A > > documentation says that you should only expect one failure=20  > (test_time). > > =20 % > > The ones I had problems with are,  > > =20  > >     test_mailbox > >     test_mmap  > >     test_old_mailbox > >     test_optparse  > >     test_pwd > >     test_shutil  > >     test_socket_ssl  > >     test_time  > >     test_timeout > >     test_set > > =20 A > > Is this indicative of a problem with my installation, am I=20  > missing some- > > required libraries/patches or is all ok ?  > > =20  >=20C > Your installation is probably correct, I haven't, yet, update the 4 > installation documentation which is for python235.< > Some of the tests may successed or failed depend on the=20 > hardlink setting > of your installation disk.G > If I remember correctly test_pwd are know to failed if you have share H > UIC between account or don't have the identifier associate to the UIC.1 > 2 tests succeed on Itanium and failed on Alpha. ? > You may, also, have some failed tests if your system can't=20  > access Internet.E > 1 test succeed if your run it from an unprivileged account and fail  > otherwise. >=20= > You can run any test in verbose mode, for example to run=20  > test_shutil in > verbose mode:  > $ @alltests "test_shutil"  >=20B > > I was able to run the pystone program fine, so I imagine it=20 > would justH > > be programs which use those modules above that might have problems ? > > =20 & > There is a much more complete bench:. > python /python_root/tools/pybench/pybench.py >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > JF >=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:20:23 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS 9 Message-ID: <l9idnb4lFv-FS4_YnZ2dnUVZ_oCdnZ2d@libcom.com>    johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: > K >> Good luck on finding a 90A or 96.  I'm still looking for a model 96, and K >> it's been years.  Same with MicroVAX 3100 model 98.  These were the last % >> and best of the small VAX systems.  > G > In case you've missed it there i a 90A on EBay with no bids, starting F > at $299 plus $40 shipping.  Seems a bit steep but then again if it's? > rare it might be worth it.  No CD, just a floppy.  Auction ID  > 120033593399 >    Thanks.   G I've got 2 90A systems.  One I'm running, and it's backup just sitting   there.  D It's the model 96 I'd like to find, or even better, a MicroVAX 3100 B model 98.  I'm not so interested that I'll pay big bucks.  I just E figured that enough were manufactured that sooner or later a working  " system might be picked up cheaply.  H The VAXstation 4000 model 90A is working just fine.  Any small increase F in speed wouldn't be noticed by me.  I've also got some older Alphas, K and I'm getting one of David's DS10L systems which will then be my fastest.   F It's mostly just wanting one of the last VAX systems.  Meaningless to  most.  Nostalgia value to me.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2006 11:44:01 -0700& From: alexandre.laguejacques@gmail.com5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS C Message-ID: <1158864241.185436.194350@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   > Thanks for all your responses!  From the information that I'veC gathered, it would be more interesting for me to buy an Alpha.  Not F sure, however, if I can wait long enough for one to be available cheapD on this newsgroup as Phillip suggested, but hell I'll give it a try.E David Turner has an excellent selection but it is a bit pricey for my G budget (and for what I want to do with VMS).  Will probably continue to  monitor eBay as well.   E As to my question about a DEC equivalent to the IBM model M keyboard, G sorry for not being more explicit.  It's the old AT keyboard introduced > with the PS/2 that makes a very audible clicking sound.  I wasC wondering if DEC had produced anything similar since I have trouble E typing on the newer plastic oatmeal keyboards.  Now I have to wonder, E even if this existed, it probably would be so old as to not work with . the standard Alpha keyboard connection anyway.  D (Although as JF Mezei pointed out, there is a French Canadian layout@ for VMS which is practical for me.  One out of two ain't bad...)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:56:17 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS * Message-ID: <45129a03@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  ' alexandre.laguejacques@gmail.com wrote:     > 1. Vaxstation or Alphastation?  ,    AlphaStation or AlphaServer with graphics  F > 2. If Vaxstation, is a 4000/60 ok or should I hold out for a 4000/90 > (or 90A or 96)?   I    If you have the choice and the chance and you are going to purchase a  N VAXstation series box, the 90 and later are significantly faster.  VAXstation O 4000 model 60 is circa 12, VAXstation 4000 model 90 circa 32+, VAXstation 4000  F model 90A circa 38+, and VAXstation 4000 model 96 circa 46 VUPS.  The M performance boost from the model 60 to the model 90 is most definitely quite   noticeable.   I    Also realize that these VAXstation boxes do use SCSI and do have 10Mb  M Ethernet, but these do NOT have PCI slots, and the graphics can and often do  O require synch-on-green displays.  (If you're not familiar with synch-on-green,  3 do take a look at the pointers in the OpenVMS FAQ.  P <http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq/>.)  These boxes generally also use a DIGITAL N keyboard connector and keyboard, as well, and that's also in the FAQ.  You'll : need an appropriate LK201 or LK402 or equivalent keyboard.  O    Being newer, the AlphaStation systems use PS/2 DINs for keyboards and mice,   and most will have PCI slots.     > 3. If Alphastation, which one?  N    An AlphaStation or AlphaServer with an Alpha EV56 microprocessor or later, Q and preferably one with an Alpha EV6-class processor or later.  I would not look  O to acquire anything prior to EV56.  (There were instruction set features added  N in that generation that greatly assist various applications.  Well, that, and N that the EV6 and later processors are far faster than EV4 and EV5 processors.)  B > My hope is that an old VMS enthusiast could give me some advice!  K    The site <http://www.hoffmanlabs.org> has hobbyist hardware information.   M    The site <http://www.hp.com/go/productbulletin/> has specs and details on  K recent and recently-retired systems, and a link to the Systems and Options  & Catalogs (SOCs) for the older systems.    I > P.S.: Is there something similar to the IBM model M in terms of Digital  > keyboards?  K    LK201, LK401, LK421, LK441, and such use the older DIGITAL modular jack  K connection for the keyboard (VAXstation and older VT terminals), while the  O LK411, LK461, LK46W use the PS/2 DIN connection (AlphaStation).  There is also  O the LK463 (current generation LK), a USB keyboard with a PS/2 dongle, and this  5 works with AlphaStation and Integrity server systems.   P    The OpenVMS FAQ also lists OpenVMS systems on the 'net where you can sign up  for free logins.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:40:14 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS : Message-ID: <m7udnZqeMJEpZY_YnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@comcast.com>  ' alexandre.laguejacques@gmail.com wrote:   	 > Hi all,  > I > I'm thinking of buying a system to play around with OpenVMS.  I used to D > have a shell account on a VAX a long time ago and I'm rusty to theG > point of not remembering much.  I'd like to refamiliarize myself with " > the rudimentaries of the system. > H > To get into the mood, I had considered playing around with an emulatorB > like SIMH but I feel like having some hardware.  Nothing mission> > critical but more of a hobby system.  So here's the dilemna. > H > I can get a working Vaxstation 4000/60 for around C$250 (includes tapeH > and hard drives but no monitor or keyboard).  I have no idea if that'sE > a decent price but I have seen some complete systems on eBay for as I > much as C$800.  My guess that a relatively worthless piece of equipment ? > such as this commands such a high price because of nostalgia.  > = > That said, would it not make more sense to invest in an old G > Alphastation?  I've seen them on eBay for as little (sic) as C$300 to G > C$400.  It seems that this might be practical because the more recent I > video hardware would work well with my analog/digital LCD monitor.  The I > extra horsepower of an Alpha would probably allow me to run a windowing G > system as well, but I'm concerned that the non-Vax architecture might H > limit me somehow in learning VMS.  And quite frankly, I enjoy the look > of an older Vaxstation.  >  > So to be to the point: >   > 1. Vaxstation or Alphastation? > F > 2. If Vaxstation, is a 4000/60 ok or should I hold out for a 4000/90 > (or 90A or 96)?  >   > 3. If Alphastation, which one? > B > My hope is that an old VMS enthusiast could give me some advice! > Thanks in advance. > I > P.S.: Is there something similar to the IBM model M in terms of Digital  > keyboards? >   G The VAX architecture is mostly nostalgia these days.  There's a lot of  E hardware still running; indeed, I believe that there are VAX 11/780s  G still in service but for other than nostalgia, it's slow and expensive  C to maintain unless you have the skills to maintain it yourself and  I access to spare parts.  I own a MicroVAX 3100 and a VAXstation 4000/VLC.  H   I haven't booted either one in several years.  If I need a VMS system 3 for something one of my Alphas does the job nicely.   I If your choice is VAX, the VAXstation 4000s model 60, model 90, or model  H 90A are all very nice machines.  The model 60 is the slowest and, IIRC,  the 90A is fastest.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 00:05:14 +0200 # From: "H Vlems" <hvlems@freenet.de> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS 4 Message-ID: <eev26e$bgn$1@registered.motzarella.org>   >  > So to be to the point: >   > 1. Vaxstation or Alphastation?  K Get both. I paid real money for the Alpha's, the VAX systems were free. Two J exceptions: a VAX 3100 model 10 for which I paid 10 euros and a VAXstation% 4000 VLC that came at the same price.  > F > 2. If Vaxstation, is a 4000/60 ok or should I hold out for a 4000/90 > (or 90A or 96)?   L If all you want to do is figure out what DCL commands you can remember, thenI a 4000-60 will suit you fine. The 4000-90 is a lot faster but you'll only K notice that at boot time or if you start compiling large programs. The real F advantage of a 4000-60 is that it will keep on running VMS even if youK remove the graphics card. A 4000-9x somehow looses its hardware information J when the graphics card is removed (because it got broken) and consequentlyJ the system won't be recognized by VMS and the licenses won't load anymore.H A 4000-60 without a graphics card will run DECwindows perfectly on a PC. >   > 3. If Alphastation, which one?  I That question was answered by others. I'd recommend looking for white box L alpha's. These systems were sold as Windows NT only systems and as such nextL to useless for mosst shops. These Alpha's are given away for free. They wereJ somewhat crippled so they won't run VMS without a minor modification. Once/ that is solved VMS runs perfectly well on them.  > B > My hope is that an old VMS enthusiast could give me some advice! > Thanks in advance. > I > P.S.: Is there something similar to the IBM model M in terms of Digital  > keyboards? >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:37:02 -0400 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS I Message-ID: <8660a3a10609211737h51910828m74ba2e9f6e8cb213@mail.gmail.com>   H Good luck on finding a 90A or 96.  I'm still looking for a model 96, andH it's been years.  Same with MicroVAX 3100 model 98.  These were the last" and best of the small VAX systems.   Er, no.   B The last VAXen made were 4000 Model 108s and they came in the sameA chassis as the Personal Workstations.  I know because USPS bought & about 53 as I recall, of the last onesA made-- I was the chief cook and bottle washer for that particular  deployment project-   @ The real fun part of that project was building about 90 SW300s -@ burning them in, preconfiguring them for their destinations, and0 shipping them out on Government Bills of Lading.  F We got two tractor trailer loads of components in at the warehouse andC I built a row of test stations. VTs and slave printers.  Never took A the 300s off of their pallets, just hooked up power and the VTs..   B I should put "can operate steel strapping machine without injuring$ himself or others" on my r=E9sum=E9.   WWWebb  4 On 9/21/06, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:) > alexandre.laguejacques@gmail.com wrote:  > > Hi all,  > > K > > I'm thinking of buying a system to play around with OpenVMS.  I used to F > > have a shell account on a VAX a long time ago and I'm rusty to theI > > point of not remembering much.  I'd like to refamiliarize myself with $ > > the rudimentaries of the system. > ' > Might as well add my .02 to the rest.  > J > > To get into the mood, I had considered playing around with an emulatorD > > like SIMH but I feel like having some hardware.  Nothing mission@ > > critical but more of a hobby system.  So here's the dilemna. > > J > > I can get a working Vaxstation 4000/60 for around C$250 (includes tapeJ > > and hard drives but no monitor or keyboard).  I have no idea if that'sG > > a decent price but I have seen some complete systems on eBay for as K > > much as C$800.  My guess that a relatively worthless piece of equipment A > > such as this commands such a high price because of nostalgia.  > J > I've seen these systems go rather cheap.  The $250 is rather high.  ThenI > again, it depends upon how it's configured.  How much memory?  Quantity J > and size of disks?  Is monitor, keyboard, and mouse included?  I've seenJ > just the box go for as low as $50 US$.  An RZ28 type disk (2 GB) is fine > for such a system. > G > Another issue is whether you want to run it as a workstation, or as a J > server.  I run all my systems as servers and use terminal emulation on a > PC to access the systems.  > ? > > That said, would it not make more sense to invest in an old I > > Alphastation?  I've seen them on eBay for as little (sic) as C$300 to I > > C$400.  It seems that this might be practical because the more recent K > > video hardware would work well with my analog/digital LCD monitor.  The K > > extra horsepower of an Alpha would probably allow me to run a windowing I > > system as well, but I'm concerned that the non-Vax architecture might J > > limit me somehow in learning VMS.  And quite frankly, I enjoy the look > > of an older Vaxstation.  > H > Steve Hoffman of VMS Engineering has mentioned that at least an EV6 isH > required to give good response with some software, such as the MozillaF > web browser.  Older systems will run DECwindows.  A workstation will+ > require more memory than a server set-up.  >  > > So to be to the point: > > " > > 1. Vaxstation or Alphastation? > > H > > 2. If Vaxstation, is a 4000/60 ok or should I hold out for a 4000/90 > > (or 90A or 96)?  > J > Good luck on finding a 90A or 96.  I'm still looking for a model 96, andJ > it's been years.  Same with MicroVAX 3100 model 98.  These were the last$ > and best of the small VAX systems. > " > > 3. If Alphastation, which one? > F > I've got some AlphaStation 200 4/233 systems, and they work fine forC > what I do.  They use older memory and disks, but such still seems B > available if you look hard and long enough.  I'm not so sure I'd+ > recommend them as windowing workstations.  > D > > My hope is that an old VMS enthusiast could give me some advice! > > Thanks in advance. > > K > > P.S.: Is there something similar to the IBM model M in terms of Digital  > > keyboards? > >  > C > One final thing.  Lots of stuff on E-Bay.  Some of it won't work. J > Definitely some unscrupulous sellers.  Some of them don't even know what0 > they're selling.  Must be searching dumpsters. > J > The best deal I've seen lately is the DS10L systems that David at IslandJ > Computers is selling.  Not everything is included, most of what's neededF > for a hobbyist server, more will need to be added for a workstation. >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450@ > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > DFE Ultralights, Inc.  > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486  >      --=20  Ajilon Consulting  Site resident at Quest Diagnostics = first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,"COMPRESS").com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:05:02 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS ) Message-ID: <451336BB.E91F3@teksavvy.com>   $ A suggestion to the original poster:  G Mention your location (city).  Unless we know where you are, it is hard C to start offering gear to you. And if you get an offer from a place ? halfway around the world, the shipping costs will bankrupt you.   D Having acces to your local DECUS (or whatevre its name is this week)F organisation can also help you find people who have surplus VAX/alphas they can get rid of.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:15:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS , Message-ID: <4513393E.A53EAE3E@teksavvy.com>  9 Another thing to consider about availability of machines.   D As the years went by, VMS lost market momentum.  Perhaps someone canH provide evidence proving me wrong, but the impression I have is that the@ younger the vax, the less of them were sold, hence the fewer are available today.  M Also, because the youngest VAXes aren't all that slow, they still have value.   H And the older VAXes have only sentimental value and most would have beenF trashed, except for those lucky enough to have been able to rescue one from the dumpster.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:50:31 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS 9 Message-ID: <zeidne3DCLIEoo7YnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@libcom.com>    William Webb wrote: J > Good luck on finding a 90A or 96.  I'm still looking for a model 96, andJ > it's been years.  Same with MicroVAX 3100 model 98.  These were the last$ > and best of the small VAX systems. > 	 > Er, no.     Ok, a friendly disagreement, Ok?  D > The last VAXen made were 4000 Model 108s and they came in the same' > chassis as the Personal Workstations.   H This is basically a short tower.  Guess what the MicroVAX 3100 model 98 H is.  Yeah, the same short tower.  If you issue a SHOW LICENSE/CHARGE on I the MicroVAX, it tells you that it's a VAX 4000 model 108a, or something  I near to that.  They are basically the same machine, with the addition of  $ the DSSI to the VAX 4000 model 108a.  E Both of these systems, and the VAXstation 4000 model 96 ran the last  H version of the N-VAX, all at I believe the same speed, around 100 MHz I F believe.  Not sure, cause the figure of 81 MHz also is sticking in my # mind (what's left of it) somewhere.   H Probably a VAX 4000 model 7** also had the same CPU, possibly running a D bit faster, but the 3 small systems were the last of the breed, and G rather fast.  They'll beat an EV4 at string handling, but get trounced    by the same in number crunching.   >  I know because USPS bought ( > about 53 as I recall, of the last onesC > made-- I was the chief cook and bottle washer for that particular  > deployment project-  > B > The real fun part of that project was building about 90 SW300s -B > burning them in, preconfiguring them for their destinations, and2 > shipping them out on Government Bills of Lading. > H > We got two tractor trailer loads of components in at the warehouse andE > I built a row of test stations. VTs and slave printers.  Never took C > the 300s off of their pallets, just hooked up power and the VTs..  > D > I should put "can operate steel strapping machine without injuring" > himself or others" on my rsum.  4 So where does the USPS get rid of it's old hardware?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:01:15 +0200 ( From: Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de>5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS / Message-ID: <eevg4a$qpj$03$1@news.t-online.com>   ) alexandre.laguejacques@gmail.com schrieb: @ > Thanks for all your responses!  From the information that I'veE > gathered, it would be more interesting for me to buy an Alpha.  Not H > sure, however, if I can wait long enough for one to be available cheapF > on this newsgroup as Phillip suggested, but hell I'll give it a try.G > David Turner has an excellent selection but it is a bit pricey for my I > budget (and for what I want to do with VMS).  Will probably continue to  > monitor eBay as well.   2 I wouldn't hold my breath on getting one for free,< everybody owning a really good machine would know its value,> even more so now that the alpha line is discontinued for good.   > G > As to my question about a DEC equivalent to the IBM model M keyboard, I > sorry for not being more explicit.  It's the old AT keyboard introduced @ > with the PS/2 that makes a very audible clicking sound.  I wasE > wondering if DEC had produced anything similar since I have trouble G > typing on the newer plastic oatmeal keyboards.  Now I have to wonder, G > even if this existed, it probably would be so old as to not work with 0 > the standard Alpha keyboard connection anyway.  F The keyboards that come native with VAXstations (and DECstations too, @ for that matter) make an audible clicking sound, a bit too noisy@ for my ears, unfortunately. They have, however, an MMJ connector7 so they don't plug in the usual alphas, at least AFAIK. 4 (so maybe you revert your decision at this point :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:02:14 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com>5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS ) Message-ID: <op.tf9bx0mvtte90l@hyrrokkin>   F On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:05:14 -0700, H Vlems <hvlems@freenet.de> wrote:  K > That question was answered by others. I'd recommend looking for white box K > alpha's. These systems were sold as Windows NT only systems and as such    > nextK > to useless for mosst shops. These Alpha's are given away for free. They    > wereI > somewhat crippled so they won't run VMS without a minor modification.    > Once1 > that is solved VMS runs perfectly well on them.   C Well, some them had only ARC so could not boot either Tru64 or VMS,  e.g., XL266    --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:10:52 -0400 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS I Message-ID: <8660a3a10609211910t18e62e45va08a8dffeae6fc10@mail.gmail.com>   ) ------=_Part_21462_26126831.1158891052615 ; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   4 On 9/21/06, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: >  > William Webb wrote: L > > Good luck on finding a 90A or 96.  I'm still looking for a model 96, an= d L > > it's been years.  Same with MicroVAX 3100 model 98.  These were the las= t & > > and best of the small VAX systems. > >  > > Er, no.  > " > Ok, a friendly disagreement, Ok? > F > > The last VAXen made were 4000 Model 108s and they came in the same) > > chassis as the Personal Workstations.  > I > This is basically a short tower.  Guess what the MicroVAX 3100 model 98 I > is.  Yeah, the same short tower.  If you issue a SHOW LICENSE/CHARGE on J > the MicroVAX, it tells you that it's a VAX 4000 model 108a, or somethingJ > near to that.  They are basically the same machine, with the addition of& > the DSSI to the VAX 4000 model 108a. > F > Both of these systems, and the VAXstation 4000 model 96 ran the lastI > version of the N-VAX, all at I believe the same speed, around 100 MHz I G > believe.  Not sure, cause the figure of 81 MHz also is sticking in my % > mind (what's left of it) somewhere.  > I > Probably a VAX 4000 model 7** also had the same CPU, possibly running a E > bit faster, but the 3 small systems were the last of the breed, and H > rather fast.  They'll beat an EV4 at string handling, but get trounced" > by the same in number crunching. >  > >  I know because USPS bought * > > about 53 as I recall, of the last onesE > > made-- I was the chief cook and bottle washer for that particular  > > deployment project-  > > D > > The real fun part of that project was building about 90 SW300s -D > > burning them in, preconfiguring them for their destinations, and4 > > shipping them out on Government Bills of Lading. > > J > > We got two tractor trailer loads of components in at the warehouse andG > > I built a row of test stations. VTs and slave printers.  Never took E > > the 300s off of their pallets, just hooked up power and the VTs..  > > F > > I should put "can operate steel strapping machine without injuring( > > himself or others" on my r=E9sum=E9. > 6 > So where does the USPS get rid of it's old hardware? >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450@ > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > DFE Ultralights, Inc.  > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486  >   L I can't speak for what the entire organization does- The part of it I worke= d ( for, once upon a time they had auctions.  L But they decided that that was too much of a PITA so they now (this was bac= k J when I contracted there) assemble railroad carloads full of it, shipped itJ to procurement in Greensboro NC, and then to some internet company (I usedK to know who but forget now) that auctions off lots [arbitrary groupings of, B as well as massive amounts of] of stuff for them and other Federal
 agencies..  F The only thing really I wept over upon seeing it go out that way was aK pallet stacked waist-high with DS10s that apparently had nothing wrong with  them.    WWWebb   --=20  Ajilon Consulting  Site resident at Quest Diagnostics = first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,"COMPRESS").com   ) ------=_Part_21462_26126831.1158891052615 + Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   L <br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 9/21/06, <b class=3D"gmail_send=L ername">Dave Froble</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com">davef@ts=L oft-inc.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=L "border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padd= ing-left: 1ex;">L William Webb wrote:<br>&gt; Good luck on finding a 90A or 96.&nbsp;&nbsp;I'=L m still looking for a model 96, and<br>&gt; it's been years.&nbsp;&nbsp;Sam=L e with MicroVAX 3100 model 98.&nbsp;&nbsp;These were the last<br>&gt; and b= est of the small VAX systems. L <br>&gt;<br>&gt; Er, no.<br><br>Ok, a friendly disagreement, Ok?<br><br>&gt=L ; The last VAXen made were 4000 Model 108s and they came in the same<br>&gt=L ; chassis as the Personal Workstations.<br><br>This is basically a short to=5 wer.&nbsp;&nbsp;Guess what the MicroVAX 3100 model 98 L <br>is.&nbsp;&nbsp;Yeah, the same short tower.&nbsp;&nbsp;If you issue a SH=L OW LICENSE/CHARGE on<br>the MicroVAX, it tells you that it's a VAX 4000 mod=L el 108a, or something<br>near to that.&nbsp;&nbsp;They are basically the sa=  me machine, with the addition ofL <br>the DSSI to the VAX 4000 model 108a.<br><br>Both of these systems, and =L the VAXstation 4000 model 96 ran the last<br>version of the N-VAX, all at I=L  believe the same speed, around 100 MHz I<br>believe.&nbsp;&nbsp;Not sure, =1 cause the figure of 81 MHz also is sticking in my L <br>mind (what's left of it) somewhere.<br><br>Probably a VAX 4000 model 7*=L * also had the same CPU, possibly running a<br>bit faster, but the 3 small =L systems were the last of the breed, and<br>rather fast.&nbsp;&nbsp;They'll =0 beat an EV4 at string handling, but get trouncedL <br>by the same in number crunching.<br><br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;I know because =L USPS bought<br>&gt; about 53 as I recall, of the last ones<br>&gt; made-- I=L  was the chief cook and bottle washer for that particular<br>&gt; deploymen=
 t project-L <br>&gt;<br>&gt; The real fun part of that project was building about 90 SW=L 300s -<br>&gt; burning them in, preconfiguring them for their destinations,=I  and<br>&gt; shipping them out on Government Bills of Lading.<br>&gt;<br> L &gt; We got two tractor trailer loads of components in at the warehouse and=L <br>&gt; I built a row of test stations. VTs and slave printers.&nbsp;&nbsp=L ;Never took<br>&gt; the 300s off of their pallets, just hooked up power and=
  the VTs..L <br>&gt;<br>&gt; I should put &quot;can operate steel strapping machine wit=L hout injuring<br>&gt; himself or others&quot; on my r=E9sum=E9.<br><br>So w=L here does the USPS get rid of it's old hardware?<br><br>--<br>David Froble&=L nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=J p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tel: 724-529-0450L <br>Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;E-Mail=L : <a href=3D"mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com">davef@tsoft-inc.com</a><br>DFE Ult=L ralights, Inc.<br>170 Grimplin Road<br>Vanderbilt, PA&nbsp;&nbsp;15486<br><=L /blockquote></div><br>I can't speak for what the entire organization does- =I The part of it I worked for, once upon a time they had auctions.&nbsp;=20 L <br><br>But they decided that that was too much of a PITA so they now (this=L  was back when I contracted there) assemble railroad carloads full of it, s=L hipped it to procurement in Greensboro NC, and then to some internet compan=L y (I used to know who but forget now) that auctions off lots [arbitrary gro=L upings of, as well as massive amounts of] of stuff for them and other Feder= al agencies..&nbsp;=20L <br><br>The only thing really I wept over upon seeing it go out that way wa=L s a pallet stacked waist-high with DS10s that apparently had nothing wrong =K with them. <br><br>WWWebb<br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Ajilon Consulting<br> L Site resident at <br>Quest Diagnostics<br>first.x.last@f$edit(contents of p=& revious line,&quot;COMPRESS&quot;).com  + ------=_Part_21462_26126831.1158891052615--    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:07:11 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> Subject: Re: zx2000 ? * Message-ID: <45129c91@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Eberhard Heuser wrote:   >> Hoff Hoffman wrote:" >>> Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann wrote: >>> 4 >>>> A Radeon 7500 AGP card runs nicely on a ZX2000. >>>  >>>   That's good to know. >>G >>   BTW: Any display artifact seen?  What resolution and refresh have  G >> you tried? Any special configuration steps, or did you just plug it   >> into the AGP slot?  >  > No display artifacts.   O    Thanks.  (You're the first I know of that's even tried the AGP in this box.)   G > The ZX2000 seems to recognize better new DVD drives. A HP DVD640i (a  I > BENQ drive) runs and burns DVDs (with CDDVD$CP, DVDwrite and cdrecord)  B > whereas on an Alphastation 600 the drive do not work because the) >  ARC-prompt doesn't show  a DVD device.   P    FWIW, SRM (SRM, not ARC/AlphaBIOS) starting somewhere around version 6 or so O has better recognition of ATAPI CD and DVD drives.  Older SRM on at least some  Q of the boxes I've worked with has had various troubles with the default settings  P of various newer ATAPI devices.  The SRM V5.9-1 that is the most recent version L for the AlphaStation XP1000, for instance, does not recognize various newer O ATAPI DVD devices, for instance.  (It does recognize some, such as the Plextor  J PX716A series.)  I don't know specifically when the SRM changes were made.  M    The EFI console used on all OpenVMS I64 systems is a completely different  5 environment from that of the SRM console.  Obviously.   M    And thanks for the update on that AGP Radeon -- that AFAIK was never even  O tested, as there are no officially-supported Integrity systems around with AGP.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:34:57 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: zx2000 ? 2 Message-ID: <06092116345273_20200290@antinode.org>  , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>  8 > [...]  The SRM V5.9-1 that is the most recent version N > for the AlphaStation XP1000, for instance, does not recognize various newer Q > ATAPI DVD devices, for instance.  (It does recognize some, such as the Plextor   > PX716A series.)  [...]  E    For the record, I seem to have no trouble booting VMS V7.3-2 on my > XP1000 from a CD-R disc in a Samsung ("Toshiba Samsung Storage: Technology Corporation") drive which identifies itself as:  B       dqa0.0.0.107.0      DQA0      TSSTcorp CD/DVDW SH-162A  TS02  = It's the wrong color (black), but otherwise it seems to work.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.520 ************************