1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 22 Sep 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 521       Contents:$ Re: "SHOW DEVICE /FULL tape:" quirk?$ Re: "SHOW DEVICE /FULL tape:" quirk?# Re: All is not well at the HP board # Re: All is not well at the HP board  Re: BACKUP$MANAGER Question = DEC/CPQ/HP stuff/libraries  for ArchiCAD/AutoCAD and so on... @ Re: DEC/CPQ/HP stuff/libraries for ArchiCAD/AutoCAD and so on...) Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system ) Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system ) Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system ) Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system ) Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system ) Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system ) Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  hp advocacy web site Re: Keyboard question... Re: Keyboard question... Re: Keyboard question... Re: Keyboard question... Re: Problems with Python tests Queue/Symbiont Re: Queue/Symbiont Re: Queue/Symbiont Re: Queue/Symbiont Re: Queue/Symbiont Re: Queue/Symbiont, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 05:21:23 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>- Subject: Re: "SHOW DEVICE /FULL tape:" quirk? B Message-ID: <1158927683.764503.278780@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Steven M. Schweda wrote:B > So, there I was with my new (to me) $10 DLT drive (faster than aF > TK50, it is), when I made the mistake of actually reading the output > from SHOW DEVICE /FULL ... > 
 >    Mounted:  > R > Magtape ALP2$MKB200:, device type Quantum DLT4000 CPQ DRV, is online, allocated,L >     deallocate on dismount, mounted foreign, record-oriented device, file-K >     oriented device, served to cluster via TMSCP Server, error logging is J >     enabled, controller supports compaction (compaction enabled), device! >     supports fastskip (per_io).  >  >    Not mounted:  > O > Magtape ALP2$MKB200:, device type Quantum DLT4000 CPQ DRV, is online, record- P >     oriented device, file-oriented device, served to cluster via TMSCP Server,J >     error logging is enabled, controller supports compaction (compaction1 >     nabled), device supports fastskip (per_io).  >  >  >    "(compaction nabled)"???  >  > @ >    VMS Alpha V8.2 shown above.  Things look similar at V7.3-2: > R > Magtape ALP$MKB200:, device type EXABYTE EXB-85058HE-0000, is online, allocated,L >     deallocate on dismount, mounted foreign, record-oriented device, file-K >     oriented device, served to cluster via TMSCP Server, error logging is I >     enabled, device is busy, controller supports compaction (compaction 1 >     nabled), device supports fastskip (per_io).  > E > (Of course, the activity LED on the Eliant drive always shows green A > instead of amber, so it seems unlikely that it's actually doing  > compaction.) > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 5 >    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 6 >    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818 >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    $ SHOW SYS/NOPROC @ OpenVMS V6.2  on node NODEX  22-SEP-2006 12:18:43.31  Uptime  20 16:29:18 $ SH DEV MK/FU  8 Magtape NODEX$MKA300:, device type DEC TLZ07, is online, record-oriented device, G     file-oriented device, error logging is enabled, controller supports &     compaction (compaction  enabled,).  <     Error count                    0    Operations completed  282201 1     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]0     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W ;     Reference count                0    Default buffer size      512 .     Density                  unknown    Format	 Normal-11   G   Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, beginning-of-tape, odd parity.     $   $ OK, who can explain the extra comma?   AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 07:50:23 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - Subject: Re: "SHOW DEVICE /FULL tape:" quirk? 3 Message-ID: <$pi99yMm1DAQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <06092122302390_20200290@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes:  > O > Magtape ALP2$MKB200:, device type Quantum DLT4000 CPQ DRV, is online, record- P >     oriented device, file-oriented device, served to cluster via TMSCP Server,J >     error logging is enabled, controller supports compaction (compaction1 >     nabled), device supports fastskip (per_io).  >  >  >    "(compaction nabled)"???   G    This bug has been seen and discussed before.  I don't think its high >    priority at VMS Engineering, but it IIRC its already known.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:49:11 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> , Subject: Re: All is not well at the HP board* Message-ID: <451405F7.1010601@comcast.net>   JF Mezei wrote:   J > Heads up: Mark Hurd is to have a press conference this Friday just afterH > closing of New York markets to address the current spying/legal issues > that are dogging HP. > H > This is being featured prominently on the BBC newscasts at this hour. F > Also mentioned was the fact that HP's stock had maintained its valueJ > through all these bad announcements, until it was revelaed that Hurd hadJ > knowledge of the investigation tactics. At that point HP's stock dropped > 10% if I recall properly.   A Philadelphia Inquirer columnist Andrew Cassel has diagnosed HP's  H problem, in a column about euphemisms, as "Integrity Deficit Disorder". G   :-) He credits a book by John Walston; "The Buzzword Dictionary" for   the expression.   
 I LOVE IT!!!!    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 12:09:48 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: All is not well at the HP board3 Message-ID: <mZeiCkXt7Syw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <451405F7.1010601@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > C > Philadelphia Inquirer columnist Andrew Cassel has diagnosed HP's  J > problem, in a column about euphemisms, as "Integrity Deficit Disorder". I >   :-) He credits a book by John Walston; "The Buzzword Dictionary" for   > the expression.   D    Yes, it appears the board of HP believes that Integrity is just a    computer marketing slogan.   D    This morning I heard the news mention Hurd as CEO now.  Hurd doesA    know HP owns VMS, right?  Will he be interested in marketing a 9    profitable product, or merging with another PC vendor?    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 07:45:18 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: BACKUP$MANAGER Question3 Message-ID: <eIWFtVx9YBXM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   H In article <eeuctk01lrr@enews2.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com writes:  N > Can BACKUP$MANAGER append additional backups to a DLT Tape?  In other words,M > if more than one disk will fit on a tape, can I fit multiple backups on one N > tape?  I'm wondering as it appears that it rewinds the tape after completingM > a backup, it just doesn't eject it.  The drive in question is a DLT7000 and & > I'm currently running OpenVMS 7.3-2.  H    I don't know about BACKUP$MANAGER, but certainly BACKUP has done this    for decades.   H    I think it's just a matter of finding out how BACKUP$MANAGER controls     the BACKUP /REWIND qualifier.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:24:35 +0400 N From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <zzLaishev@zzDeltaTelecom.RU-remove.all-zz-to-reply>F Subject: DEC/CPQ/HP stuff/libraries  for ArchiCAD/AutoCAD and so on...? Message-ID: <3BCC256783A54478E8CB1507EE481D38@NNTP.DeltaTel.RU>    Hello, All!   M 	I got a task to perform some investigation for a new special zone for Hosts  Q (AS, GS, StarCoupler ...). I'd like to use some tools like ArchiCAD for modeling   new computer room...  M 	So, is the question: is there in the internet an library for elements where  6 exist computer stuff like AS,GS and so one equipments?   	Thanks in advance.      --  F + WBR, OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker ............. Skype: SysMan-One  +9 Delta Telecom JSC, IMT-MC-450(CDMA2000) cellular operator E Russia,191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3 Cel: +7 (812) 716-3222 F +http://starlet.deltatelecom.ru ............. Frying on OpenVMS only +   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 01:44:13 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>I Subject: Re: DEC/CPQ/HP stuff/libraries for ArchiCAD/AutoCAD and so on... B Message-ID: <1158914653.465766.42020@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  , There is the HP collection in the visio cafe http://www.visiocafe.com/hp.htm    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 00:57:33 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>2 Subject: Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 systemC Message-ID: <1158911853.252301.197990@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   E There is a 32Gb limit on the size of RAID sets on those raid cards so  5x9 is too big.   G Personally I think SWXCRs are OK as long as you understand and use them  within their their limtations.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:31:03 -0400 < From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>2 Subject: Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system0 Message-ID: <12h7stcpbf5fl66@news.supernews.com>  & And have about 5 spares for the year !     --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   + "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> wrote in message = news:1158911853.252301.197990@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... G > There is a 32Gb limit on the size of RAID sets on those raid cards so  > 5x9 is too big.  > I > Personally I think SWXCRs are OK as long as you understand and use them   > within their their limtations. >    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 07:44:03 -0700  From: "H" <hvanderw@comcast.net>2 Subject: Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 systemC Message-ID: <1158936243.269701.302090@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   E So I should be able to make a 3 drive raid set and 2 JBOD drives with  the 5 9 GB drives ?      Ian Miller wrote: G > There is a 32Gb limit on the size of RAID sets on those raid cards so  > 5x9 is too big.  > I > Personally I think SWXCRs are OK as long as you understand and use them   > within their their limtations.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:32:44 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 2 Subject: Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system: Message-ID: <7vydndKRnrS8n4nYnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@comcast.com>   H wrote:   > sorry,B > The disk controller is the standard one that comes with the 2100 > E >  RC200RCU that is the console utility that I am using to config the  > disks  >  > BTW the 9.1 GB drives are -VW  > the old ones are rz28-vas  >  >  > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > 
 >>H wrote:   Please don't top post!  D That's a RAID Array 230 sometimes known as SWXCR.   ISTR running an G RZ1EF-VW on a SWXCR.  I know I've run the RZ1DD on a SWXCR.  I had two  E SWXCRs at my last job; I bought them, installed them, and configured  A them.  One was installed in an AlphaServer 2000, the other in an  I AlphaServer 4100.  Both worked like champs from the day I installed them!    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 08:47:14 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk2 Subject: Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 systemC Message-ID: <1158940034.214824.294430@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   G I think the maximum we've got installed on client systems is three 18GB D drives in a single RAIDset, partitioned up into half a dozen drives.E I doubt that 18GB are actually on the supported list and certainly no  36GB drives will be.   Steve    H wrote:E > Can anyone tell me the maximum size disk I can use on an Alpha 2100 	 > system? H > I currently have 6 2gb drives (1 JBOD & 5 in a raid 5 config) I have 5F > 9.1 RZ1Ds that I would like to use but I can not get them to init in( > the raid controler software (RCA2300U)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:53:13 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 2 Subject: Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 system: Message-ID: <A96dncbWKqpzm4nYnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Ian Miller wrote:   G > There is a 32Gb limit on the size of RAID sets on those raid cards so  > 5x9 is too big.  > I > Personally I think SWXCRs are OK as long as you understand and use them   > within their their limtations. >   I I have to agree with you there.  I used two of them for about two years.  H   They got the job done with never a problem!  Each one had a couple of  RAID 1 sets and some JBODs.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 08:59:11 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>2 Subject: Re: disk drive size for alpha 2100 systemA Message-ID: <1158940751.543711.13790@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   C Correcting myself a little - I think the limitation may be 32Gb per  unit.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 01:31:33 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>& Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L, Message-ID: <45137536$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  6 "George Cook" <cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> wrote in message news:FrOeaZNqdk8u@wvnvms...  > : > 3.9MB is enough to hold 1280*1024*3 (24 bits = 3 bytes). >   I However, almost every graphics implementation puts those 3 bytes into a 4 H byte pixel.  There are a few cards out there that can do a packed 24-bit2 mode - I don't want to think about programming it.  L All VMS graphics that do 24-bits use a 32-bit pixel size.  The extra byte isH generally there for special things - depending on the HW - like an Alpha value.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 01:34:46 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>& Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L, Message-ID: <451375f7$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  + <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote in message < news:1158793136.243833.210050@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >  > A > Another video option that is often overlooked is the ATI Radeon E > 7000/7500.  Since you now have an EV6 class system you can use that I > card also.  I've got one in each of my XP1000's and haven't noticed any H > problems yet.  But it's only been about two months since I swapped outF > the previous cards.  You have to use the PCI version with is getting? > harder to find, but there are several people selling the 7500 H > "All-in-Wonder" version for between $50-$85 US on Ebay.  Some are evenA > new, still sealed in boxes.  The PCI 7000 is a bit more common. H > Performance wise I believe it is comparable to a Powercolor 300/350 inI > 2D graphics, but is somewhat in 3D performance.  This works fine for me E > since I don't do much 3D work.  Mine are just programming/sys admin 
 > systems. >   J 3D is undependable on the R7000.  It works in 2D on recent versions of VMSL and with latest ECO's.  The R7000 does not have transformation, lighting andD shading in the HW - and the code paths for the fallback isn't reallyI debugged - since we don't support the card for 3D - that isn't suprising.   ( The 2D engine is identical to the R7500.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:07:23 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L, Message-ID: <451399B5.43793DCA@teksavvy.com>  H Is there some "big picture" document that described how the OS interacts with a graphics card ?  F FredK mentioned that VMS for instance is likely to use 32 bits and use3 the last 8 bits for special stuff like alpha value.   G Does the OS really have any control over how the graphics card behaves, F or does the graphics card have a variety of options and the OS chooses one or the other ?  G Another example: From what I have read, VMS does not enable/support the B DVI output of the Radeon 7500. Wouldn't it be a simple case of VMSF depositing a couple of values in a register and making an interrupt so/ that the graphics cards turns on the DVI port ?   F Or would VMS truly have to provide data in a very different way to the9 graphics card in order for the DVI output to ne enabled ?     @ And if VMS lacks the feature that enables the DVI port, is thereF anything preventing a privileged user from accessing the graphics cardD directly and making the interrupts/data transfer necessary to turn a5 port on or off (DVI, or the composite video output) ?     C On an old mac, I can dynamically change the screen size/resolution, G without impacting applications or having to reboot.  On VMS, could this 
 be feasable ?   H I assume one would have to access the graphics card to tell it to resizeH the screen area, and somehow tell the X server to also resize the screen' area. Are there mechanisms to do that ?   B When the X server starts up, I realise that it looks at a bunch ofD symbols and logicals to set a lot of the parameters (as opposed to aF control panel on a MAC that does this dynamically). But could the code? that does that be called at times other than X server startup ?     H Seems like graphic cards are voodoo magic happening behind the scenes. I" would liek a better understanding.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:35:48 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L9 Message-ID: <JuidncdWVfcLA47YnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@libcom.com>    Robert Deininger wrote: H > In article <KMqdnZjhe41daI_YnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B.* > Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote: >  >> JF Mezei wrote: >> >   E >>> Would it be fair to state that 256meg of RAM on an Alpha would be + >>> roughly equivalent to 64 meg on a VAX ? J >> It's a VERY rough equivalence.  The executable instructions tend to be L >> abour 3-4 times the size of the the same code in VAX binary but the data I >> should be the same size.  64MB is about the bare minumum for an Alpha  F >> (although I think you could buy one with as little as 32MB).  I've J >> juiced up my Alphastation 200 4/233 to 96MB and my Alphastation 600 to 	 >> 256MB.  > L > A number of Alpha systems were sold with 32 MB of memory back in the day. J > I've seen indications of 16 MB systems in developement, but I don't haveH > anything at hand that indicates they actually shipped with that little	 > memory.  > H > During the V8.3 endgame, I had a DEC 3000-700 running as a single nodeL > cluster with DECnet and TCPIP.  (No DECwindows.)  It was running fine withK > 40 MB, with obvious problems at 36 MB.  I didn't take the time to see how J > low I could go by turning off clustering and/or networks.  I also didn'tJ > do any manual tuning.  I just ran AUTOGEN after every memory reduction. J > I'd be fairly surprised if V8.3 wouldn't run at or below 32 MB on Alpha.  E Back when I first got ahold of some AlphaStation 200 4/233 systems I  F tried some memory configurations.  At 16 MB the system would not boot F the OS.  It took 32 MB to boot V7.2-1.  I don't know if it would have I worked on less, when SIMMs come in sizes of 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 MB and must  ; be used in pairs getting a system with 31 MB isn't trivial.   C Now, that system ran VMS, DECnet, and TCP/IP, no graphics, and one  H interactive process.  Wasn't much in the way of free memory.  I decided $ that 64 MB was a reasonable minimum.  F The system I'm using to play around with V8.2, and probably V8.3, has  160 MB.  No graphics.   I > I'm sure VMS I64 V8.3 would NOT run with 64 MB of memory. :-)  IIRC the J > firmware wants more than that.  But the smallest memory configuration inL > the smallest supported Integrity server (the rx1600) is 512 MB, so there's > no worry.  > I > The new rx3600 and rx6600 systems start out at 2 GB of memory, which is  > kind of mind-boggling. > H > The minimum memory requirements for VMS 8086 haven't been established.  2 Hey, picking on JF is my job!  Why you horning in?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:45:43 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L, Message-ID: <4513A2B5.C93EE698@teksavvy.com>   > Robert Deininger wrote: J > > During the V8.3 endgame, I had a DEC 3000-700 running as a single nodeN > > cluster with DECnet and TCPIP.  (No DECwindows.)  It was running fine with+ > > 40 MB, with obvious problems at 36 MB.       Dave Froble wrote:G > tried some memory configurations.  At 16 MB the system would not boot G > the OS.  It took 32 MB to boot V7.2-1.  I don't know if it would have J > worked on less, when SIMMs come in sizes of 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 MB and must= > be used in pairs getting a system with 31 MB isn't trivial.     D On my all mighty Microvax II with a whopping 16 meg of memory, I wasH able to run DECDEN4, TCPIP Services, ALLIN1 and many other small things.G AUTOGEN was not sufficient to make it run, I had to manually tweak many D parameters to boost them (thanks to advise here on cov). Same for myM 3100-30 which had 20 meg of memory with DECWINDOWS (later boosted to 32 meg).   E So it is quite possible that you would have had to tweak many autogen A parameters on alpha as well to get it to run in very small memory 2 configs. And of course, you want a huge page file.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 04:49:21 -07001 From: "Bart.Zorn@gmail.com" <Bart.Zorn@gmail.com> & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10LA Message-ID: <1158925761.740839.62220@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   G I am using a DS15 with an ATI 7500 card, using the DVI with a DVI cable @ to the DVI port of a Compaq 1825 display. I did nothing special.   HTH,  	 Bart Zorn    JF Mezei wrote: J > Is there some "big picture" document that described how the OS interacts > with a graphics card ? > H > FredK mentioned that VMS for instance is likely to use 32 bits and use5 > the last 8 bits for special stuff like alpha value.  > I > Does the OS really have any control over how the graphics card behaves, H > or does the graphics card have a variety of options and the OS chooses > one or the other ? > I > Another example: From what I have read, VMS does not enable/support the D > DVI output of the Radeon 7500. Wouldn't it be a simple case of VMSH > depositing a couple of values in a register and making an interrupt so1 > that the graphics cards turns on the DVI port ?  > H > Or would VMS truly have to provide data in a very different way to the; > graphics card in order for the DVI output to ne enabled ?  >  > B > And if VMS lacks the feature that enables the DVI port, is thereH > anything preventing a privileged user from accessing the graphics cardF > directly and making the interrupts/data transfer necessary to turn a7 > port on or off (DVI, or the composite video output) ?  >  > E > On an old mac, I can dynamically change the screen size/resolution, I > without impacting applications or having to reboot.  On VMS, could this  > be feasable ?  > J > I assume one would have to access the graphics card to tell it to resizeJ > the screen area, and somehow tell the X server to also resize the screen) > area. Are there mechanisms to do that ?  > D > When the X server starts up, I realise that it looks at a bunch ofF > symbols and logicals to set a lot of the parameters (as opposed to aH > control panel on a MAC that does this dynamically). But could the codeA > that does that be called at times other than X server startup ?  >  > J > Seems like graphic cards are voodoo magic happening behind the scenes. I$ > would liek a better understanding.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 09:29:50 -0500. From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks)& Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L, Message-ID: <pVjYa07Wjlzp@cuebid.zko.hp.com>   (Robert Deininger) writes:  H > The minimum memory requirements for VMS 8086 haven't been established.  - Check the TPS reports from earlier this week.    --    H Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 05:47:28 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> Subject: hp advocacy web site C Message-ID: <1158929248.560661.247970@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   = anyone know what happened to http://www.hpuseradvocacy.org/ ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:58:41 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ! Subject: Re: Keyboard question... , Message-ID: <4513A5BF.297CF0C0@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: N >    LK201, LK250, LK401, LK411, LK412, LK421, LK450, LK461 beige, LK46W frost > white, and LK463 black.       D In the PDF document for the DS10, it lists only LK461-xx variants asG keyboards for that unit. Is that the case ? Or are there older variants S that would also work ?  (eg: keyboards for older Alpha worklstations for instance).     ? Also, I have found an LK462  french canadian. What would be the # difference between LK462 and LK461?     G While I am at it. the DS10L sports 2  serial ports (COM1 an COM2 in the E documentation). They appear to be 9 pin D type connectors. Can anyone F confirm if it is in fact a standrad 9 pin connector and what sex is on0 the cabinet (or what sex I need for the cable) ?  G I'll have to scrouge up some of those connectors to build serial cables  for my new puppy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 07:35:35 -0400 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> ! Subject: Re: Keyboard question... I Message-ID: <8660a3a10609220435t7a3be608i31db9c7ffa7b535b@mail.gmail.com>   ( ------=_Part_3940_25397593.1158924935126; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inline   : On 9/22/06, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote: J > >    LK201, LK250, LK401, LK411, LK412, LK421, LK450, LK461 beige, LK46W > frost  > > white, and LK463 black.  >  > F > In the PDF document for the DS10, it lists only LK461-xx variants asI > keyboards for that unit. Is that the case ? Or are there older variants J > that would also work ?  (eg: keyboards for older Alpha worklstations for > instance). >  > A > Also, I have found an LK462  french canadian. What would be the % > difference between LK462 and LK461?     = The LK462 french-canadian version won't work on Alphaservers.  : - ) % You're stuck in the VAXen Hemisphere.  : - )  : - ) Send the DS10L back to David.  : - )  : - )  : - )  Now.  L I'm sorry, jf, it's just that you've been so rabidly VAX-centric for so longJ that teasing you about winning the DS10L is completely irresistable to me.  K And, from reading some recent posts in the newsgroup, I am not the only one $ who can't resist teasing you a bit..  G While I am at it. the DS10L sports 2  serial ports (COM1 an COM2 in the G > documentation). They appear to be 9 pin D type connectors. Can anyone 5 > confirm if it is in fact a standrad 9 pin connector      Yep.     > and what sex is on2 > the cabinet (or what sex I need for the cable) ?    $ In this newsgroup, sex is off-topic.  I AFAIK, all 9 pin serial ports are male, and all 25-pin parallel ports are D male.  (Now some wiseacre is going to post that some obscure make of hardware violates this norm.)   L In the PC world, you used-to-could (If you're not from the southern US, lookL up Jeff Foxworthy for an explanation of this term) know if a 25 pin port wasJ serial or parallel was by whether it was male or female.  ( I can send you6 the schematic for a parallel port loopback connector!)  H If you want to hook up a PC to it and run a terminal emulator to it, one DEC-pure part methodH is to use a BC16E cable with H8571J adapters (MMJ to DB9F, obviously) on	 each end.   F There are also commercial PC cables that are DB9F at each end; they'reA probably null-modem, I haven't had coffee yet so I do not wish to 9 pontificate on that as I haven't had to buy one in years.   G I'll have to scrouge up some of those connectors to build serial cables  > for my new puppy.  >      WWWebb --   Ajilon Consulting  Site resident at Quest Diagnostics = first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,"COMPRESS").com   ( ------=_Part_3940_25397593.1158924935126+ Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inline   A<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/22/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">JF Mezei</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com">jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> 7Hoff Hoffman wrote:<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;LK201, LK250, LK401, LK411, LK412, LK421, LK450, LK461 beige, LK46W frost<br>&gt; white, and LK463 black.<br><br><br>In the PDF document for the DS10, it lists only LK461-xx variants as<br>keyboards for that unit. Is that the case ? Or are there older variants  <br>that would also work ?&nbsp;&nbsp;(eg: keyboards for older Alpha worklstations for instance).<br><br><br>Also, I have found an LK462&nbsp;&nbsp;french canadian. What would be the<br>difference between LK462 and LK461?</blockquote><div><br> {The LK462 french-canadian version won't work on Alphaservers. <br>: - )<br>You're stuck in the VAXen Hemisphere.<br></div>: - )&nbsp; : - )<br>Send the DS10L back to David.<br>: - )&nbsp; : - )&nbsp; : - )<br>Now.<br><br>I'm sorry, jf, it's just that you've been so rabidly VAX-centric for so long that teasing you about winning the DS10L is completely irresistable to me.&nbsp;  <br><br>And, from reading some recent posts in the newsgroup, I am not the only one who can't resist teasing you a bit..<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">  While I am at it. the DS10L sports 2&nbsp;&nbsp;serial ports (COM1 an COM2 in the<br>documentation). They appear to be 9 pin D type connectors. Can anyone<br>confirm if it is in fact a standrad 9 pin connector </blockquote><div><br> Yep. <br>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">and what sex is on<br>the cabinet (or what sex I need for the cable) ?</blockquote>  <div><br>In this newsgroup, sex is off-topic.<br><br>AFAIK, all 9 pin serial ports are male, and all 25-pin parallel ports are male.&nbsp; (Now some wiseacre is going to post that some obscure make of hardware violates this norm.)(<br><br>In the PC world, you used-to-could (If you're not from the southern US, look up Jeff Foxworthy for an explanation of this term) know if a 25 pin port was serial or parallel was by whether it was male or female.&nbsp; ( I can send you the schematic for a parallel port loopback connector!)<br><br>If you want to hook up a PC to it and run a terminal emulator to it, one DEC-pure part method<br>is to use a BC16E cable with H8571J adapters (MMJ to DB9F, obviously) on each end.<br><br>There are also commercial PC cables that are DB9F at each end; they're probably null-modem, I haven't had coffee yet so I do not wish to pontificate on that as I haven't had to buy one in years.  <br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I'll have to scrouge up some of those connectors to build serial cables<br>for my new puppy.  <br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all">WWWebb<br>-- <br>Ajilon Consulting<br>Site resident at <br>Quest Diagnostics<br>first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,&quot;COMPRESS&quot;).com  * ------=_Part_3940_25397593.1158924935126--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 07:56:35 -0400 < From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>! Subject: Re: Keyboard question... 0 Message-ID: <12h7jrp61rmd3ef@news.supernews.com>  * The VT4xx series have interchangeable keys" The LK2xx are completely different  I JF - Remember the conversation yesterday - an LK461/462 will work as they  both have the PS/2 interfaces L If you can only find LK411/461 (same thing just different REV and internals)H US and then a Canadian French LK401 then you can swap around the keys as required  1 The US version are far more common than any other > I think the one you have found is the "word-processor" variety   DT   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   9 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote in message $ news:4512a4e9@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > Bob Blunt wrote: > H > > A LK461 is the exact same layout as the original LK401 but has a PS2L > > interface.  If you have an old LK401 then you know the look and feel.  IK > > didn't look up the details of the model you quoted, so I can't tell you 0 > > if it's "frost white," light beige or black. > H >    LK201, LK250, LK401, LK411, LK412, LK421, LK450, LK461 beige, LK46W frost H > white, and LK463 black.  (That's a list sorted by color, NOT a list by	 connector G > or by layout!)  (And I don't recall off-hand if the VT100/VT101/VT102  keyboardC > had a separate part number, but the terminal and its keyboard was 
 beige/putty.)  > H >    I'd expect some keyboard pairings to allow parts exchanges (akin to swappingI > parts between the LK401 and its WPS equivalent LK402, for instance, and  the K > LK411 and the WPS LK412), but there can easily be differences between the H > generations, and possibly even across variants in the same generation. > H >    These keyboards were not ever intended to be user-reparable, nor to haveE > keycaps swapped around.  (Yes, more than a few of us have performed  various , > keyboard surgeries over the years, but...) > H >    I'll see about doing a table of the keyboards and connections, as I	 don't see K > that collected and available anywhere.  (Though I'm not even going to try  toH > remember, to determine no list any sort of keycap cross-compatibility. Cranking@ > time back as far as the VT100 made my head hurt enough.  :-) ) >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 08:27:23 -0700 4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>! Subject: Re: Keyboard question... % Message-ID: <1158938710.573467@smirk>    JF Mezei wrote: I > While I am at it. the DS10L sports 2  serial ports (COM1 an COM2 in the G > documentation). They appear to be 9 pin D type connectors. Can anyone H > confirm if it is in fact a standrad 9 pin connector and what sex is on2 > the cabinet (or what sex I need for the cable) ?  C The 9-pin serial connectors on my DL10L (Thank you, David Turner!), B are pinned the same as those on every PC I have.   Whether that is0 "standard" is a matter I don't want to get into.  > As for sex on the cabinet, I think it is a bit small for that,? although you won't have far to fall if you do try it.   I think ? the top of a VAX 780 or similar would give you a bit more room, A although the height might be a bit daunting.   (P.S. My wife says  an 8600 is better.)    Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 08:44:04 +0200 1 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois_Pi=E9ronne?= ' Subject: Re: Problems with Python tests 5 Message-ID: <4513863b$0$5097$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>   	 Hi Chris,  > Hi JF, > E > Sorry not to get back to you earlier, but this is just a spare-time  sort of project. >    No problem.   H > When you say you have posted a newer version, can you be more specific with the version. L > The one that I installed is Python 2.5b3 and has an August 8th date on it., > Is there a more recent version than this ? >   G Yes I have port this week the Python 2.5 final which was just released.   ! I will do the announcement later.    The new kit for Alpha isG http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/axp/python250-v0110-0-1.zip   % I have also update the download page: , http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/  F On alpha 4 tests are know to not completely succeed, 3 on Itanium. OneD of those failed test pass I you run it from an unprivileged account.    I I have setup a vmspython mailing list. If you agree I will subscribe you.    Regards,   JF   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:50:41 +0200 , From: "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at> Subject: Queue/Symbiont 5 Message-ID: <1158915042.387038@proxy.dienste.wien.at>   	 Hi folks,   ( Given the PID of a SYMBIONT_xxx process,0 how can I obtain the name of the serviced queue?  5 It's a symbiont which establishes a TELNET connection 0 to a target whose IP address and port number are8 given in locigal names. The symbiont is single-threaded,+ one process always services one queue only.   : I think this information is available in the queue manager8 because he knows which queue to place in state "Stopped"9 when a symbiont process is killed. Is there a way to find 	 out this?    Thanks & kind greetings,   Ferry    --   Ing Ferry Bolhar  Magistrat der Stadt Wien - MA 14 A-1010 Wien  E-Mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.at    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 02:08:22 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> Subject: Re: Queue/Symbiont C Message-ID: <1158916102.579538.239020@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   F What I have done with some is to find the files open by that PID (SHOWB DEVICE/FILES) and one of the files is the log file named after the queue.  C You are correct that the queue manager must know. Have you explored - $GETQUI to see if there is a suitable option?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 05:42:00 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Queue/Symbiont , Message-ID: <4513AFE4.5C9F727D@teksavvy.com>   Ferry Bolhar wrote: * > Given the PID of a SYMBIONT_xxx process,2 > how can I obtain the name of the serviced queue?    C I am not sure that there is some official foolproof way to do this.   D With F$GETJPI, you can get the name of the image that the process is< running. In the case of the TCPIP SMTP symbiont, it would beM TCPIP$SMTP_SYMBIONT  (which you would assume SYS$SYSTEM:.EXE as default spec)   D Then, you can use F$GETQUI to scan through all queues , look only atE those executing on this node, and those which have the processor that 9 matches the file being executed by that symbiont process.   G This may yield multiple queues, each having their own symbiont process, $ but all running the same image file.      < > I think this information is available in the queue manager: > because he knows which queue to place in state "Stopped"; > when a symbiont process is killed. Is there a way to find  > out this?   H The queue manager is responsible for creating the symbiont processes andG establishing comminications between each symbiont and the queue manager @ (used by the SMB$ routines that provide the connection between aH symbiont and the queue manager). So the queue manager would know the PIDC os the created symbiont, and I would suspect also has a termination G mailbox associated with each symbiont so that when one fails, the queue E manager gets a notification via that mailbox (assumption on my part).   G however, looking at my old doc, there doesn't appear to be a SYS$GETQUI G function to get the pid of a symbiont. You can get the pid of a running  job, but not of a symbiont.   G If you look up the programmerts documentation for the utility routines, G the chapter on SMB routines will rpovide an overview of what goes on in  a symbiont.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 08:27:25 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> Subject: Re: Queue/Symbiont C Message-ID: <1158938844.942127.250420@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Ferry Bolhar wrote: I > Which logfile are you talking about? A symbiont doesn't have a logfile.   + Some symboints do e.g the UCX LPD symboint.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 08:26:59 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Queue/Symbiont B Message-ID: <1158938819.924103.136270@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   Ferry Bolhar wrote:  > Hi folks,  > * > Given the PID of a SYMBIONT_xxx process,2 > how can I obtain the name of the serviced queue? > 7 > It's a symbiont which establishes a TELNET connection 2 > to a target whose IP address and port number are: > given in locigal names. The symbiont is single-threaded,- > one process always services one queue only.  > < > I think this information is available in the queue manager: > because he knows which queue to place in state "Stopped"; > when a symbiont process is killed. Is there a way to find  > out this?  >  > Thanks & kind greetings, >  > Ferry   E I don't know if this method is generally applicable, but it worked in $ my quick test. No guarantees - YMMV.   $ SHOW DEVICE/FULL  6 Scan the output for your symbiont and note the device.   $ SHOW QUEUE/DEV/ALL  5 Scan the output for your device and that's the queue.   * Example using my FILTER command procedure:   $  SH SYM FILT-   FILT*ER == "@SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]FILTER.COM"   & $ FILT SYMBIONT_1/WIND=9 SHOW DEV/FULL? %FILTER-I, SEARCHing for SYMBIONT_1/WIND=9 from $ SHOW DEV/FULL 8 Terminal TTA1:, device type LA120, is online, allocated, record-oriented device,      carriage control.   <     Error count                    0    Operations completed       3 1     Owner process       "SYMBIONT_1"    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]0     Owner process ID        00000096    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O,G,W;     Reference count                2    Default buffer size      132   G Terminal TTA2:, device type unknown, is online, record-oriented device,  carriage   $ FILT TTA1: SHOW QUEUE/DEV/ALL 8 %FILTER-I, SEARCHing for TTA1: from $ SHOW QUEUE/DEV/ALLE Terminal queue SYS$PRINT, idle, on NODEX::TTA1:, mounted form DEFAULT  $    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 09:06:35 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Queue/Symbiont B Message-ID: <1158941195.427552.176840@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>  
 AEF wrote: > Ferry Bolhar wrote: 
 > > Hi folks,  > > , > > Given the PID of a SYMBIONT_xxx process,4 > > how can I obtain the name of the serviced queue? > > 9 > > It's a symbiont which establishes a TELNET connection 4 > > to a target whose IP address and port number are< > > given in locigal names. The symbiont is single-threaded,/ > > one process always services one queue only.  > > > > > I think this information is available in the queue manager< > > because he knows which queue to place in state "Stopped"= > > when a symbiont process is killed. Is there a way to find 
 > > out this?  > >  > > Thanks & kind greetings, > > 	 > > Ferry  > G > I don't know if this method is generally applicable, but it worked in & > my quick test. No guarantees - YMMV. >  > $ SHOW DEVICE/FULL > 8 > Scan the output for your symbiont and note the device. >  > $ SHOW QUEUE/DEV/ALL > 7 > Scan the output for your device and that's the queue.  > , > Example using my FILTER command procedure: >  > $  SH SYM FILT/ >   FILT*ER == "@SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]FILTER.COM"  > ( > $ FILT SYMBIONT_1/WIND=9 SHOW DEV/FULLA > %FILTER-I, SEARCHing for SYMBIONT_1/WIND=9 from $ SHOW DEV/FULL : > Terminal TTA1:, device type LA120, is online, allocated, > record-oriented device,  >     carriage control.  > > >     Error count                    0    Operations completed	 >       3 3 >     Owner process       "SYMBIONT_1"    Owner UIC 
 > [SYSTEM]2 >     Owner process ID        00000096    Dev Prot > S:RWPL,O,G,W= >     Reference count                2    Default buffer size 	 >     132  > I > Terminal TTA2:, device type unknown, is online, record-oriented device, 
 > carriage > ! > $ FILT TTA1: SHOW QUEUE/DEV/ALL : > %FILTER-I, SEARCHing for TTA1: from $ SHOW QUEUE/DEV/ALLG > Terminal queue SYS$PRINT, idle, on NODEX::TTA1:, mounted form DEFAULT  > $   G On second thought, this trick may not (probably won't?) work for you. I E negelected that your target is an IP address and port number. Hmmm. I ' don't have any queues like that. Sorry!    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:30:40 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS B Message-ID: <0001HW.C13979E0006FE497F02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>  9 On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:01:15 +0200, Michael Kraemer wrote 1 (in article <eevg4a$qpj$03$1@news.t-online.com>):    > H > The keyboards that come native with VAXstations (and DECstations too, B > for that matter) make an audible clicking sound, a bit too noisyB > for my ears, unfortunately. They have, however, an MMJ connector9 > so they don't plug in the usual alphas, at least AFAIK. 6 > (so maybe you revert your decision at this point :-) >   G Since I have one of these in mint condition, I asked here if some kind  H of converter existed to connect it to a PS2 socket, and hence my Alpha. H The answer I got here at the time was that they are so different inside E that there is probably  no chance of swapping cables etc, and little  ) chance of finding a USB converter either.   ( I still can't bear to recycle it though.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:34:52 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS , Message-ID: <ef0e8c$ih5$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>  t In article <0001HW.C13979E0006FE497F02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:: >On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:01:15 +0200, Michael Kraemer wrote2 >(in article <eevg4a$qpj$03$1@news.t-online.com>): >  >>  I >> The keyboards that come native with VAXstations (and DECstations too,  C >> for that matter) make an audible clicking sound, a bit too noisy C >> for my ears, unfortunately. They have, however, an MMJ connector : >> so they don't plug in the usual alphas, at least AFAIK.7 >> (so maybe you revert your decision at this point :-)  >>   > H >Since I have one of these in mint condition, I asked here if some kind I >of converter existed to connect it to a PS2 socket, and hence my Alpha.  I >The answer I got here at the time was that they are so different inside  F >that there is probably  no chance of swapping cables etc, and little * >chance of finding a USB converter either. > ) >I still can't bear to recycle it though.  >   K I have a UK VMS keyboard with PS2 connector which makes the rather annoying I clicking noise whenever you hit the keys and which I have connected to an  Alpha.O I can't remember the keyboard designation but I'll look it up and post details   later.  
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University       >--  >Paul Sture  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 06:53:54 -0400 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS I Message-ID: <8660a3a10609220353l4db10644r718017965f6d854e@mail.gmail.com>   ' ------=_Part_3551_8384011.1158922434100 ; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inline   < On 9/22/06, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote: > ; > On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:01:15 +0200, Michael Kraemer wrote 3 > (in article <eevg4a$qpj$03$1@news.t-online.com>):  >  > > I > > The keyboards that come native with VAXstations (and DECstations too, D > > for that matter) make an audible clicking sound, a bit too noisyD > > for my ears, unfortunately. They have, however, an MMJ connector  9 > so they don't plug in the usual alphas, at least AFAIK. 8 > > (so maybe you revert your decision at this point :-) > >  > H > Since I have one of these in mint condition, I asked here if some kindI > of converter existed to connect it to a PS2 socket, and hence my Alpha. I > The answer I got here at the time was that they are so different inside F > that there is probably  no chance of swapping cables etc, and little+ > chance of finding a USB converter either.  > * > I still can't bear to recycle it though.     Don't.  I You could always order a VT terminal from Boundless Technologies (or from I David at Island for less money!) to plug it in to.and use the old BC16E + J H8571J, if needed and plug it into the serial console port of the Alpha in	 question.   J And if the VT in question happens to be a VT220, it will probably (like my wife's parrot) outlive us both.    : - )    WWWebb   > -- > Paul Sture >  >      --   Ajilon Consulting  Site resident at Quest Diagnostics = first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,"COMPRESS").com   ' ------=_Part_3551_8384011.1158922434100 + Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inline   C<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 9/22/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Paul Sture</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch">paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:01:15 +0200, Michael Kraemer wrote<br>(in article &lt;<a href="mailto:eevg4a$qpj$03$1@news.t-online.com">eevg4a$qpj$03$1@news.t-online.com</a>&gt;):<br><br>&gt;<br>&gt; The keyboards that come native with VAXstations (and DECstations too,  <br>&gt; for that matter) make an audible clicking sound, a bit too noisy<br>&gt; for my ears, unfortunately. They have, however, an MMJ connector</blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">&gt; so they don't plug in the usual alphas, at least AFAIK.<br>&gt; (so maybe you revert your decision at this point :-)<br>&gt;<br><br>Since I have one of these in mint condition, I asked here if some kind<br>of converter existed to connect it to a PS2 socket, and hence my Alpha. <br>The answer I got here at the time was that they are so different inside<br>that there is probably&nbsp;&nbsp;no chance of swapping cables etc, and little<br>chance of finding a USB converter either.<br><br>I still can't bear to recycle it though.</blockquote><div><br>Don't.&nbsp; <br><br>You could always order a VT terminal from Boundless Technologies (or from David at Island for less money!) to plug it in to.and use the old BC16E + H8571J, if needed and plug it into the serial console port of the Alpha in question. <br><br>And if the VT in question happens to be a VT220, it will probably (like my wife's parrot) outlive us both.<br><br>: - )<br><br></div>WWWebb<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> --<br>Paul Sture<br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Ajilon Consulting<br>Site resident at <br>Quest Diagnostics<br>first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,&quot;COMPRESS&quot;).com  ) ------=_Part_3551_8384011.1158922434100--    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 06:39:20 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS , Message-ID: <4513BD59.209F994E@teksavvy.com>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: M > I have a UK VMS keyboard with PS2 connector which makes the rather annoying K > clicking noise whenever you hit the keys and which I have connected to an  > Alpha.    4 You are aware that on DECwidnows, you can go to the    Session Manager  	Options
 		Keyboard...   6 And disable keyclick ? (or set it to a lower setting).  A After you have done the APPLY, remember to Options-< Save session D manager so that those changes are preserved across sessions/reboots.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:40:45 +0000 (UTC) ( From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer)5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS 5 Message-ID: <ef0ejd$7i6$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>   M In article <0001HW.C13979E0006FE497F02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture & <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:I > Since I have one of these in mint condition, I asked here if some kind  J > of converter existed to connect it to a PS2 socket, and hence my Alpha. J > The answer I got here at the time was that they are so different inside G > that there is probably  no chance of swapping cables etc, and little  + > chance of finding a USB converter either.   > well, there are USB <=> PS/2 and even HIL <=> PS/2 converters,' what's so special about that keyboard ?    * > I still can't bear to recycle it though.  = Before dumping it I would really consider selling it on eBay, @ you won't make a fortune, of course, but these parts might still have some value since they areF pretty rare these days, as are e.g. VAX mice, keyboard/mouse splitters1 and those combined monitor/keyboard/mouse cables.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:59:37 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS B Message-ID: <0001HW.C1399CC90078133FF02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>  6 On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:53:54 +0200, William Webb wrote (in article ? <8660a3a10609220353l4db10644r718017965f6d854e@mail.gmail.com>):      > K > You could always order a VT terminal from Boundless Technologies (or from K > David at Island for less money!) to plug it in to.and use the old BC16E + L > H8571J, if needed and plug it into the serial console port of the Alpha in > question.  >   : A severe shortage of desk space gets in the way there. :-(   L > And if the VT in question happens to be a VT220, it will probably (like my! > wife's parrot) outlive us both.  >   E Short of dropping from a great height or similar catastrophe, that's   probably true.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:51:05 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS B Message-ID: <0001HW.C1399AC900779B2CF02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>  9 On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:40:45 +0200, Michael Kraemer wrote 7 (in article <ef0ejd$7i6$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>):   O > In article <0001HW.C13979E0006FE497F02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture ( > <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:J >> Since I have one of these in mint condition, I asked here if some kind K >> of converter existed to connect it to a PS2 socket, and hence my Alpha.  K >> The answer I got here at the time was that they are so different inside  H >> that there is probably  no chance of swapping cables etc, and little , >> chance of finding a USB converter either. > @ > well, there are USB <=> PS/2 and even HIL <=> PS/2 converters,  H Unsure what an HIL interface was, I went a-Googling (anyone else notice H that Google seems slow at the moment?), and came up with this wonderful  sounding product:   : http://www.tifaq.com/keyboards/accessories-interfaces.html  $ "STEP ON IT! Keyboard Control Pedals  E STEP-ON-IT! Keyboard Control Pedals supplement the computer keyboard  E with three  electronic foot switches that take over the operation of  D selected keystrokes and mouse  clicks. The system moves part of the F entry activity from the keyboard to the floor pedals  - thus speeding 7 up the typing process through reducing hand movements.    E  STEP-ON-IT! Keyboard Control Pedals can be custom-programmed by the  E end-user to assign or reassign any three keys or mouse clicks to the  D floor operation, to suit the needs at the  time. An initial default G configuration for the foot-operated switches is these frequently  used  H keystrokes: Pedal 1 - Shift; Pedal 2 - Control; Pedal 3 - Alt. However, G the operator  can choose to assign any other keystroke, such as - Esc,  H Return, PgUp, PgDn, a longer  macro (up to 13 characters per pedal), or  a mouse button click.   D (see website given above for more manufacturer product information)"  F which lends a completely new meaning to to the phrase "test driving a  system". :-)  ) > what's so special about that keyboard ?  >   @ Just that I rescued it when there was a "recycling day" at work.  G (At that time, recycling electronic goods here in .ch wasn't easy. You  F were supposed to take 'em back to the shop you bought them at, but in C practice unless you were spending money on a replacement, the shop  D didn't really want to know, or would charge a small fortune for the F privilege. Thankfully this has now changed, with a smallish surcharge F on new electronic goods, according to their nature and size, covering G the cost of recycling, and you can take stuff to any electronic outlet  H and they are happy to receive it.  I had a really good cellar clear out  when that was introduced.)  + >> I still can't bear to recycle it though.  > ? > Before dumping it I would really consider selling it on eBay, B > you won't make a fortune, of course, but these parts might still  > have some value since they areH > pretty rare these days, as are e.g. VAX mice, keyboard/mouse splitters3 > and those combined monitor/keyboard/mouse cables.  >   ' I wish I'd grabbed more of them now :-)    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:56:18 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS B Message-ID: <0001HW.C1399C020077E47CF02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>  B On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:34:52 +0200, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote. (in article <ef0e8c$ih5$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>):   > M > I have a UK VMS keyboard with PS2 connector which makes the rather annoying K > clicking noise whenever you hit the keys and which I have connected to an P > Alpha. I can't remember the keyboard designation but I'll look it up and post    > details later.  D I'd forgotten about that clicking noise, but yes, I could give it a + home if the postage costs aren't too great.      --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 08:24:05 -0400 < From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS 0 Message-ID: <12h7lfbodv7jp4f@news.supernews.com>   You noted we are a bit pricey   : DS10L 466Mhz EV6 (a current or reaosnably current chipset) 256MB Memory 30GB IDE 7200RPM Disk  Dual 10/100 Ethernet   All for $199    A SHow me an Ebay deal that beats that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    :0)    David    --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   3 <alexandre.laguejacques@gmail.com> wrote in message = news:1158799875.187081.198370@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... 	 > Hi all,  > I > I'm thinking of buying a system to play around with OpenVMS.  I used to D > have a shell account on a VAX a long time ago and I'm rusty to theG > point of not remembering much.  I'd like to refamiliarize myself with " > the rudimentaries of the system. > H > To get into the mood, I had considered playing around with an emulatorB > like SIMH but I feel like having some hardware.  Nothing mission> > critical but more of a hobby system.  So here's the dilemna. > H > I can get a working Vaxstation 4000/60 for around C$250 (includes tapeH > and hard drives but no monitor or keyboard).  I have no idea if that'sE > a decent price but I have seen some complete systems on eBay for as I > much as C$800.  My guess that a relatively worthless piece of equipment ? > such as this commands such a high price because of nostalgia.  > = > That said, would it not make more sense to invest in an old G > Alphastation?  I've seen them on eBay for as little (sic) as C$300 to G > C$400.  It seems that this might be practical because the more recent I > video hardware would work well with my analog/digital LCD monitor.  The I > extra horsepower of an Alpha would probably allow me to run a windowing G > system as well, but I'm concerned that the non-Vax architecture might H > limit me somehow in learning VMS.  And quite frankly, I enjoy the look > of an older Vaxstation.  >  > So to be to the point: >   > 1. Vaxstation or Alphastation? > F > 2. If Vaxstation, is a 4000/60 ok or should I hold out for a 4000/90 > (or 90A or 96)?  >   > 3. If Alphastation, which one? > B > My hope is that an old VMS enthusiast could give me some advice! > Thanks in advance. > I > P.S.: Is there something similar to the IBM model M in terms of Digital  > keyboards? >    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 05:26:20 -0700& From: alexandre.laguejacques@gmail.com5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS C Message-ID: <1158927980.827412.254580@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Hi JF,  H I'm in Montr=E9al.  That's a good idea, though.  I remember visiting notE too long ago the web site of a nearby DECUS (or something like that).  Google will help me!   - Alex   JF Mezei a =E9crit :  & > A suggestion to the original poster: > I > Mention your location (city).  Unless we know where you are, it is hard E > to start offering gear to you. And if you get an offer from a place A > halfway around the world, the shipping costs will bankrupt you.  > F > Having acces to your local DECUS (or whatevre its name is this week)H > organisation can also help you find people who have surplus VAX/alphas > they can get rid of.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 07:38:37 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <mTBqTgwrYpsU@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <45129a03@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> writes:  > K >    If you have the choice and the chance and you are going to purchase a  P > VAXstation series box, the 90 and later are significantly faster.  VAXstation Q > 4000 model 60 is circa 12, VAXstation 4000 model 90 circa 32+, VAXstation 4000  B > model 90A circa 38+, and VAXstation 4000 model 96 circa 46 VUPS.  H    Reminds me of the days when I thought I might pick up a used VAX 2000H    for a couple hundred bucks.  Glad I skipped that one (we went throughA    some VAXStation 2000 at work when that was the only standalone     VAXStation).    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:40:02 +0000 (UTC) ( From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer)5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS 5 Message-ID: <ef0lj2$ag3$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>   M In article <0001HW.C1399AC900779B2CF02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture & <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:; > On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:40:45 +0200, Michael Kraemer wrote 9 > (in article <ef0ejd$7i6$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>):  > K > > In article <0001HW.C13979E0006FE497F02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul  > Sture * > > <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:L > >> Since I have one of these in mint condition, I asked here if some kind M > >> of converter existed to connect it to a PS2 socket, and hence my Alpha.  M > >> The answer I got here at the time was that they are so different inside  J > >> that there is probably  no chance of swapping cables etc, and little . > >> chance of finding a USB converter either. > > B > > well, there are USB <=> PS/2 and even HIL <=> PS/2 converters, > $ > Unsure what an HIL interface was,   6 Human Interface Link (or so), found on HP 9000 boxes, 1 in particular 400 series, contemporary to VS4000, J comes in keyboard/mouse incarnation and is as rare as those original LKxxx
 keyboards.9 Looks a bit like an RJ45 connector, but isn't, of course. 3 I just recently learnt that adapters to PS/2 exist.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 07:34:46 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <DlbTfgTWt39m@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <1158864241.185436.194350@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, alexandre.laguejacques@gmail.com writes: > G > As to my question about a DEC equivalent to the IBM model M keyboard, I > sorry for not being more explicit.  It's the old AT keyboard introduced @ > with the PS/2 that makes a very audible clicking sound.  I wasE > wondering if DEC had produced anything similar since I have trouble G > typing on the newer plastic oatmeal keyboards.  Now I have to wonder, G > even if this existed, it probably would be so old as to not work with 0 > the standard Alpha keyboard connection anyway. >    D    I don't recall DEC ever putting keyclick in its keyboards.  ThereC    was an option to turn on keyclick on VT100 (a sound generated by E    the keyboard speaker), but I think its the mechanics you're really     after, not the sound?  E    From the vertical cylinder keys of the Teledyne TTYs we had on our H    PDP-10 at school, to the flat keyboards of modern laptops, I've found?    a lot of things not to like, but I haven't had your problem.   A    Which wakes up the old grey cells.  Remember telling TECO that B    ALTMODE should be accepted as ESCAPE?  Recall the days when "_"B    was a single character "<-"?  Or the early BLISS compilers that:    accepted the single character "<-" instead of "=" in an    assignment statement?  4    The latter caused a lot of code that looked like:       A_.B + 2;    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:05:48 +0000 (UTC) / From: John Forkosh <forkosh@seeSig4address.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS , Message-ID: <ef0n3c$4i1$1@reader1.panix.com>  . William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> wrote:K : You could always order a VT terminal from Boundless Technologies (or from K : David at Island for less money!) to plug it in to.and use the old BC16E + L : H8571J, if needed and plug it into the serial console port of the Alpha in : question.  : WWWebb  @ That's exactly how I have a console connected to com1 of a ds10.@ Works great.  But beware that there are two styles of mmj-to-db9A connectors.  The H8571-J is, like William said, the one you want. B But there's also an H8575-B for older MicroVAX, that can't be usedB on PC or Alpha.  At first I had the wrong one, and it took a while! to realize the true problem.  See 2      http://h71000.www7.hp.com/faq/vmsfaq_025.html for more details.  --  > John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 08:07:58 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS 2 Message-ID: <06092208075892_20200290@antinode.org>  ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)    F >    I don't recall DEC ever putting keyclick in its keyboards.  [...]  F    You need an LK450 (circa 1995).  Shift-Alt-Help cycles through fourE loudness levels (including, mercifully, off).  It has four LEDs and a G coiled cord, too.  The keyclick is electronic, of course, not intrinsic  to the key switches.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  3    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 4    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 06:44:02 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS C Message-ID: <1158932642.793471.110030@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:n > In article <1158864241.185436.194350@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, alexandre.laguejacques@gmail.com writes: > > I > > As to my question about a DEC equivalent to the IBM model M keyboard, K > > sorry for not being more explicit.  It's the old AT keyboard introduced B > > with the PS/2 that makes a very audible clicking sound.  I wasG > > wondering if DEC had produced anything similar since I have trouble I > > typing on the newer plastic oatmeal keyboards.  Now I have to wonder, I > > even if this existed, it probably would be so old as to not work with 2 > > the standard Alpha keyboard connection anyway. > >  > F >    I don't recall DEC ever putting keyclick in its keyboards.  ThereE >    was an option to turn on keyclick on VT100 (a sound generated by G >    the keyboard speaker), but I think its the mechanics you're really  >    after, not the sound? >   @  I have a LK450 that makes keyclick sounds all by itself (It wasF plugged into a KVM).  The sound is generated by electronics inside theE keyboard and can be turned on and off through software.  It has a PS2 D connector, the standard VMS layout but has additional lights for NumG Lock and something else which I've never figured out.  I believe it was B intended for PC use where you might want a VMS layout for terminalD emulators.  I loved using it (especially the key click - I sure missG that) but it was a bit wonky.  I'm not sure if that's because I used it F with the KVM or if something is wrong with the keyboard.  It was proneG to missing characters typed and would often beep for no apparent reason  like it had been reset.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:30:59 +0000 (UTC) / From: John Forkosh <forkosh@seeSig4address.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS , Message-ID: <ef0s33$asj$1@reader1.panix.com>  + Steven M. Schweda <sms@antinode.org> wrote: = : From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) H : >    I don't recall DEC ever putting keyclick in its keyboards.  [...] : H :    You need an LK450 (circa 1995).  Shift-Alt-Help cycles through fourG : loudness levels (including, mercifully, off).  It has four LEDs and a I : coiled cord, too.  The keyclick is electronic, of course, not intrinsic  : to the key switches.& : Steven M. Schweda   sms@antinode-org  = I have an AlphaStation 200 that came with a keyboard that has ; a completely mechanical click.  It's labelled d|i|g|i|t|a|l ? on the front, but on the back it's an OEM'ed  Fujitsu keyboard, @ Model FKB4700, P/N PCXAL-FA.  It has a ps/2 connector, and works> transparently on a standard pc as well as on the AlphaStation. --  > John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.521 ************************