1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 23 Sep 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 522       Contents:$ Re: "SHOW DEVICE /FULL tape:" quirk?- $6 BY SIX MILLIONS #1 Program Online Today!!! # Re: All is not well at the HP board # Re: All is not well at the HP board # Re: All is not well at the HP board  Dunn is done Re: Dunn is done Re: Dunn is done Re: Dunn is done Re: Dunn is done Re: Dunn is done Re: Dunn is done Re: Dunn is done Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: hp advocacy web site Re: Keyboard question... Re: Keyboard question... Sydney Rdb Tech Forum , Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:15:23 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - Subject: Re: "SHOW DEVICE /FULL tape:" quirk? : Message-ID: <Wv2dnYcSmqXdtYnYnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@comcast.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:a > In article <06092122302390_20200290@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes:  > O >>Magtape ALP2$MKB200:, device type Quantum DLT4000 CPQ DRV, is online, record- P >>    oriented device, file-oriented device, served to cluster via TMSCP Server,J >>    error logging is enabled, controller supports compaction (compaction1 >>    nabled), device supports fastskip (per_io).  >> >> >>   "(compaction nabled)"???  >  > I >    This bug has been seen and discussed before.  I don't think its high @ >    priority at VMS Engineering, but it IIRC its already known. >   F It's probably not the one second that it would take to fix it but the E bureaucratic dance it would take to approve the change, release, and  G distribute it.  It may be fixed the next time the process must be gone  I through for a real bug.  The other, and perhaps more important, obstacle  H will be to convince the bureaucracy that the fix is important enough to  be done at all!    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:19:48 -0400 C From: muneca2171 <muneca2171.2ejy0v@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> 6 Subject: $6 BY SIX MILLIONS #1 Program Online Today!!!> Message-ID: <muneca2171.2ejy0v@no-mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au>  1 *-::$6 BY SIX MILLIONS #1 Program Online Today!!! 1 The Best One-Time $6 Investment You'll Ever Make! # You will see \"IMMEDIATE RESULTS\"! 2 You will earn an income for the rest of your life! With The $6 BY SIX MILLIONS::-* * '*http://www.6by6million.net/diamondwiz/*'( (http://www.6by6million.net/diamondwiz/)     --  
 muneca2171H ------------------------------------------------------------------------C muneca2171's Profile: http://techiegroups.com/member.php?userid=307 E View this thread: http://www.techiegroups.com/showthread.php?t=117129    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:28:43 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> , Subject: Re: All is not well at the HP board: Message-ID: <Wv2dnYESmqXDtonYnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@comcast.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:  b > In article <451405F7.1010601@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes: > C >>Philadelphia Inquirer columnist Andrew Cassel has diagnosed HP's  J >>problem, in a column about euphemisms, as "Integrity Deficit Disorder". I >>  :-) He credits a book by John Walston; "The Buzzword Dictionary" for   >>the expression.  >  > F >    Yes, it appears the board of HP believes that Integrity is just a >    computer marketing slogan.  > F >    This morning I heard the news mention Hurd as CEO now.  Hurd doesC >    know HP owns VMS, right?  Will he be interested in marketing a ; >    profitable product, or merging with another PC vendor?  >   G Well, the next "obvious" move is to merge with Dell. ;-)  Merging with   losers seems to be a tradition!    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 20:59:48 -0700# From: tariq.1.rahim@spamgourmet.com , Subject: Re: All is not well at the HP boardA Message-ID: <1158983988.882050.19780@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   D  HP has descended into the depths of evil. I predict the corporationD winds up like Enron within 6 months, liquidated, its workers jobless- and homeless and bereft of their investments.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:17:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: All is not well at the HP board, Message-ID: <4514B534.FA7A264C@teksavvy.com>  $ tariq.1.rahim@spamgourmet.com wrote: > F >  HP has descended into the depths of evil. I predict the corporationF > winds up like Enron within 6 months, liquidated, its workers jobless/ > and homeless and bereft of their investments.     E it won't go that far.  Worse case scenario is that the whole board is F sacked, including Hurd and sent to prison. Special shareholder meetingD nominates a new slate of board members and a new chairperson. CFO orF other high ranking employee takes on CEO responsabiliti in the interim until board finds a new CEO.  D HP will continue to sell ink at inflated prices and will continue to generate profits.   E In fact, NOT replacing the whole board will leave a bitter taste over E this and may hurt HP's image in the long term. But even that would be + fairly minimal in terms of impact on sales.   F For VMS, one would hope that if Hurd is replaced, the new guy will notG be from within HP (such as Stallard who is not pro-VMS) and will really ; understand his duty to leverage every asset to its maximum.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:19:19 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>  Subject: Dunn is done + Message-ID: <ef1k0c$lkr$1@naig.caltech.edu>   E Dunn is gone from the HP board as of today.  Here's the news release:   <    http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2006/060922b.html  A Hurd becomes chairman immediately.  Looks like they are currently H two board members short.  I wonder if that's far enough below quorum to ) to trigger a special shareholder meeting?    Regards,   David Mathog   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:29:22 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>  Subject: Re: Dunn is done + Message-ID: <ef1kjg$ls0$1@naig.caltech.edu>    Quick, mosey over to   http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060922/ap_on_hi_te/hewlett_packard_directors_41;_ylt=AuwGd1VHyKgXZiq2glSZv_vD_P0h;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl  H and check out the picture of "Hewlett-Packard chairwoman Patricia Dunn,  seen here in 2004"!    Regards,   David Mathog   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 17:34:04 -0500 # From: Alex Zorrilla <apz@zxeng.com>  Subject: Re: Dunn is done , Message-ID: <ef1obc12tur@enews1.newsguy.com>  . Ummm... gee....  She looks oddly familiar.  :P       David Mathog wrote:  > Quick, mosey over to >  > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060922/ap_on_hi_te/hewlett_packard_directors_41;_ylt=AuwGd1VHyKgXZiq2glSZv_vD_P0h;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl   >  > J > and check out the picture of "Hewlett-Packard chairwoman Patricia Dunn,  > seen here in 2004"!  > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 17:24:30 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>  Subject: Re: Dunn is done + Message-ID: <ef1urv$oqj$1@naig.caltech.edu>    David Mathog wrote:  > Quick, mosey over to >  > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060922/ap_on_hi_te/hewlett_packard_directors_41;_ylt=AuwGd1VHyKgXZiq2glSZv_vD_P0h;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl   >  > D They fixed it after an hour or so.  There was a picture of Carly in  there with Dunn's name on it.    Regards,   David Mathog   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:04:15 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Dunn is done G Message-ID: <QLKdnX7NafGNFYnYnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    David Mathog wrote: G > Dunn is gone from the HP board as of today.  Here's the news release:  > = >   http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2006/060922b.html    A bit on the late side, though.   I Clearly the board knew (or at least certainly should have known) as much  G about this fiasco a week ago as they know now - but chose at that time  G to let her remain CEO until January and remain on the board after that.   D What has changed in the interim is how much the *rest* of the world E knows about the affair.  So let's not hear any prattle about how the  D board has now demonstrated that HP's ethics are not completely dead H after all by 'doing the right thing':  they had that opportunity a week B ago (in fact, several months ago), and made a series of conscious G decisions not to until it became obvious that someone had to be thrown  * to the dogs in the hope of placating them.  F Let's hope that Dunn is only the first of several departures from the = BoD to be announced in the coming days - and that someone of  H considerably more convincing rectitude than Hurd is found to handle the 6 CEO position that he is so clearly inadequate to fill.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:35:41 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Dunn is done , Message-ID: <45148F68.664620DB@teksavvy.com>   David Mathog wrote: I > and check out the picture of "Hewlett-Packard chairwoman Patricia Dunn,  > seen here in 2004"!   E Actually, that picture maker her look much more "senior"/serious. The F other pictures shown in the last couple of weeks tend to make her look like a 20 year old bimbo.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:37:50 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Dunn is done G Message-ID: <s96dnWF6KYxtEonYnZ2dnUVZ_rSdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Bill Todd wrote:   ...   H > Let's hope that Dunn is only the first of several departures from the ? > BoD to be announced in the coming days - and that someone of  J > considerably more convincing rectitude than Hurd is found to handle the 8 > CEO position that he is so clearly inadequate to fill.  E Whoops - too sleepy after a large dinner, I guess.  Hurd may (or may  G not) be a marginally competent CEO - but he sure as hell needs ethical  G guidance from someone far better qualified to be HP's Chairman (what I  H meant to say above) than he (or Dunn) is, and my guess is that he needs $ guidance in the vision area as well.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 22:43:31 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Dunn is done , Message-ID: <45149F4A.9C994EDC@teksavvy.com>   Bill Todd wrote:E > What has changed in the interim is how much the *rest* of the world  > knows about the affair.   D PR PR PR. They were hoping the issue would go away. Instead of goingE away, some tidbit comes out involving Hurd and all hell breaks lose.    D But you are right. The board didn't act to protect HP, they hoped toB seeep the story under the carpet and protect board member's perks.  G The irony is that Dunn is being fired NOW because of news that came out C implicating Hurd in the affair. Things didn't get worse for Dunn in  recent days.  F What we do not know is to what level the board as a whole was aware ofD how far the original investigation would be going in order to obtain@ proof. (akal pretexting).   Sending some rogue informattion to aH journalist to track its movement (which si what Hurd had been implicated in this week) isn't illegal.  G My guess is that the decision to dump Dunn today was made in advance of H much worse news to come during the congressional and legal investigation possibly leading to charges.  E What happens now if Hurd is really implicated in illegal activities ?  will he have to resign too ?    H Another aspect: right now, Dunn is being fired by HP "without cause", soG she will probably get a nice golden parachute. If they wait longer, she E may get charged with illegal activities, at which point HP would fire   her without a golden parachute.     G The big question is how much will all the inquisitions link other board  members to this affair.     I > considerably more convincing rectitude than Hurd is found to handle the 8 > CEO position that he is so clearly inadequate to fill.  D So far, Hurd has had very good support of the media who have usuallyG spoken of his success in putting HP back into shape, doubling the stock C price, increasing market share against Dell etc. I don't think that > there will be much pressure to kick him out, at least not yet.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 2006 19:30:56 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L, Message-ID: <ef1dlg02iip@enews1.newsguy.com>  . JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   > > Robert Deininger wrote: L > > > During the V8.3 endgame, I had a DEC 3000-700 running as a single nodeJ > > > cluster with DECnet and TCPIP.  (No DECwindows.) It was running fine1 > > > with 40 MB, with obvious problems at 36 MB.      > Dave Froble wrote:I > > tried some memory configurations.  At 16 MB the system would not boot I > > the OS.  It took 32 MB to boot V7.2-1.  I don't know if it would have L > > worked on less, when SIMMs come in sizes of 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 MB and must? > > be used in pairs getting a system with 31 MB isn't trivial.     K > On my all mighty Microvax II with a whopping 16 meg of memory, I was able E > to run DECDEN4, TCPIP Services, ALLIN1 and many other small things. I > AUTOGEN was not sufficient to make it run, I had to manually tweak many F > parameters to boost them (thanks to advise here on cov). Same for myI > 3100-30 which had 20 meg of memory with DECWINDOWS (later boosted to 32  > meg).   G > So it is quite possible that you would have had to tweak many autogen C > parameters on alpha as well to get it to run in very small memory 4 > configs. And of course, you want a huge page file.  I I've played with various memory configs from 48MB to 2GB on my home Alpha H systems over the years.  If you're going to run DECwindows, I personallyL feel that 112MB is the absolute minimum, I found that 96MB (what is still inL my AlphaStation 500/333) doesn't cut it.  I ran my PWS 433au for quite a fewK years with 384MB, and only moved it to 1GB becuase I got the RAM for free.  7 My XP1000/667 has 2GB RAM and I'm only using about 12%.   = I think you'll be very pleased with the DS10L with 256MB RAM.    			Zane    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 23:53:56 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>& Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L% Message-ID: <oI_Qg.64$Kw1.5@trnddc05>    JF Mezei wrote: J > Is there some "big picture" document that described how the OS interacts > with a graphics card ? > H > FredK mentioned that VMS for instance is likely to use 32 bits and use5 > the last 8 bits for special stuff like alpha value.  > I > Does the OS really have any control over how the graphics card behaves, H > or does the graphics card have a variety of options and the OS chooses > one or the other ? > I > Another example: From what I have read, VMS does not enable/support the D > DVI output of the Radeon 7500. Wouldn't it be a simple case of VMSH > depositing a couple of values in a register and making an interrupt so1 > that the graphics cards turns on the DVI port ?  > H > Or would VMS truly have to provide data in a very different way to the; > graphics card in order for the DVI output to ne enabled ?  >  > B > And if VMS lacks the feature that enables the DVI port, is thereH > anything preventing a privileged user from accessing the graphics cardF > directly and making the interrupts/data transfer necessary to turn a7 > port on or off (DVI, or the composite video output) ?  >   C I think that commodity (PCI, intended for an X86 PX) graphics cards A are not only stranger than you imagine they are stranger than you F (the generic "you", i.e. everybody, not you personally) *can* imagine,B to steal from Arthur Eddington or JBS Haldane or someone.  (I onceC did a web search on this quote, and it was very confusing.  I think D several people were quoting each other, and it wasn't clear who said
 it first.)  F I think Fred K has mentioned that they have ROM-based (or EPROM-based,C to allow for firmware upgrades) X86 code on them, which you have to A trigger to get various results.  So the boot loaders/SRM/Graphics E initialization programs for Alpha, I64, etc. have to have a primitive C X86 emulator in them in order to initialize the cards!  Or you need C to hand-decode the initialization ROM routines for a given card and F figure out what bits/bytes/registers to poke in what sequence and withD what kind of timing to get the card running.  I imagine what portionF of the X86 instruction set each card might use is different, dependingB on manufacturer, model, rev level, and is completely undocumented.  ? I also vaguely recall Fred saying that the DVI interface didn't C work because he needed to discover the right magic command sequence D to enable it.  Perhaps since then he has done so, since it now seems to be working for Bart.   H I think this is why they stick to such a limited set of cards.  Wouldn'tG other proprietary, non-X86 O/S'es have the same set of problems?  (I.E. C Solaris Sparc, HP-UX, IBM, Apple OS X, etc. etc.)  Do Linux and BSD F running on X86 support many PCI graphics cards that they don't supportB on non-X86 architectures?  (Because on X86, they can probably justE execute the onboard ROM rather than trying to figure out what it does F and emulate it, making the creation of an X86 Linux driver much easierC than the creation of a PowerPC or Sparc Linux driver, for example.) C The vast hoards of open-source Linux driver developers would have a I much easier time making a new graphics card work on an X86 than elsewhere  (but still not trivial.)  . I bet sound cards have the same set of issues.   > E > On an old mac, I can dynamically change the screen size/resolution, I > without impacting applications or having to reboot.  On VMS, could this  > be feasable ?  > J > I assume one would have to access the graphics card to tell it to resizeJ > the screen area, and somehow tell the X server to also resize the screen) > area. Are there mechanisms to do that ?  > D > When the X server starts up, I realise that it looks at a bunch ofF > symbols and logicals to set a lot of the parameters (as opposed to aH > control panel on a MAC that does this dynamically). But could the codeA > that does that be called at times other than X server startup ?  >  > J > Seems like graphic cards are voodoo magic happening behind the scenes. I$ > would liek a better understanding.     --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 20:17:51 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L9 Message-ID: <ubadnQdTAJD95onYnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@libcom.com>    John Santos wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: K >> Is there some "big picture" document that described how the OS interacts  >> with a graphics card ?  >>I >> FredK mentioned that VMS for instance is likely to use 32 bits and use 6 >> the last 8 bits for special stuff like alpha value. >>J >> Does the OS really have any control over how the graphics card behaves,I >> or does the graphics card have a variety of options and the OS chooses  >> one or the other ?  >>J >> Another example: From what I have read, VMS does not enable/support theE >> DVI output of the Radeon 7500. Wouldn't it be a simple case of VMS I >> depositing a couple of values in a register and making an interrupt so 2 >> that the graphics cards turns on the DVI port ? >>I >> Or would VMS truly have to provide data in a very different way to the < >> graphics card in order for the DVI output to ne enabled ? >> >>C >> And if VMS lacks the feature that enables the DVI port, is there I >> anything preventing a privileged user from accessing the graphics card G >> directly and making the interrupts/data transfer necessary to turn a 8 >> port on or off (DVI, or the composite video output) ? >> > E > I think that commodity (PCI, intended for an X86 PX) graphics cards C > are not only stranger than you imagine they are stranger than you H > (the generic "you", i.e. everybody, not you personally) *can* imagine,D > to steal from Arthur Eddington or JBS Haldane or someone.  (I onceE > did a web search on this quote, and it was very confusing.  I think F > several people were quoting each other, and it wasn't clear who said > it first.) > H > I think Fred K has mentioned that they have ROM-based (or EPROM-based,E > to allow for firmware upgrades) X86 code on them, which you have to C > trigger to get various results.  So the boot loaders/SRM/Graphics G > initialization programs for Alpha, I64, etc. have to have a primitive E > X86 emulator in them in order to initialize the cards!  Or you need E > to hand-decode the initialization ROM routines for a given card and H > figure out what bits/bytes/registers to poke in what sequence and withF > what kind of timing to get the card running.  I imagine what portionH > of the X86 instruction set each card might use is different, dependingD > on manufacturer, model, rev level, and is completely undocumented. > A > I also vaguely recall Fred saying that the DVI interface didn't E > work because he needed to discover the right magic command sequence F > to enable it.  Perhaps since then he has done so, since it now seems > to be working for Bart.  > J > I think this is why they stick to such a limited set of cards.  Wouldn'tI > other proprietary, non-X86 O/S'es have the same set of problems?  (I.E. E > Solaris Sparc, HP-UX, IBM, Apple OS X, etc. etc.)  Do Linux and BSD H > running on X86 support many PCI graphics cards that they don't supportD > on non-X86 architectures?  (Because on X86, they can probably justG > execute the onboard ROM rather than trying to figure out what it does H > and emulate it, making the creation of an X86 Linux driver much easierE > than the creation of a PowerPC or Sparc Linux driver, for example.) E > The vast hoards of open-source Linux driver developers would have a K > much easier time making a new graphics card work on an X86 than elsewhere  > (but still not trivial.) > 0 > I bet sound cards have the same set of issues.  I John, you realize what you're doing, don't you?  That was a 5 gallon can  0 of gas thrown onto the "port VMS to x86" demand.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:37:55 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>& Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L& Message-ID: <Dl%Qg.66$Kw1.46@trnddc05>   Dave Froble wrote: > John Santos wrote: >  >> JF Mezei wrote: >>L >>> Is there some "big picture" document that described how the OS interacts >>> with a graphics card ? >>> J >>> FredK mentioned that VMS for instance is likely to use 32 bits and use7 >>> the last 8 bits for special stuff like alpha value.  >>> K >>> Does the OS really have any control over how the graphics card behaves, J >>> or does the graphics card have a variety of options and the OS chooses >>> one or the other ? >>> K >>> Another example: From what I have read, VMS does not enable/support the F >>> DVI output of the Radeon 7500. Wouldn't it be a simple case of VMSJ >>> depositing a couple of values in a register and making an interrupt so3 >>> that the graphics cards turns on the DVI port ?  >>> J >>> Or would VMS truly have to provide data in a very different way to the= >>> graphics card in order for the DVI output to ne enabled ?  >>>  >>> D >>> And if VMS lacks the feature that enables the DVI port, is thereJ >>> anything preventing a privileged user from accessing the graphics cardH >>> directly and making the interrupts/data transfer necessary to turn a9 >>> port on or off (DVI, or the composite video output) ?  >>>  >>F >> I think that commodity (PCI, intended for an X86 PX) graphics cardsD >> are not only stranger than you imagine they are stranger than youI >> (the generic "you", i.e. everybody, not you personally) *can* imagine, E >> to steal from Arthur Eddington or JBS Haldane or someone.  (I once F >> did a web search on this quote, and it was very confusing.  I thinkG >> several people were quoting each other, and it wasn't clear who said 
 >> it first.)  >>I >> I think Fred K has mentioned that they have ROM-based (or EPROM-based, F >> to allow for firmware upgrades) X86 code on them, which you have toD >> trigger to get various results.  So the boot loaders/SRM/GraphicsH >> initialization programs for Alpha, I64, etc. have to have a primitiveF >> X86 emulator in them in order to initialize the cards!  Or you needF >> to hand-decode the initialization ROM routines for a given card andI >> figure out what bits/bytes/registers to poke in what sequence and with G >> what kind of timing to get the card running.  I imagine what portion I >> of the X86 instruction set each card might use is different, depending E >> on manufacturer, model, rev level, and is completely undocumented.  >>B >> I also vaguely recall Fred saying that the DVI interface didn'tF >> work because he needed to discover the right magic command sequenceG >> to enable it.  Perhaps since then he has done so, since it now seems  >> to be working for Bart. >>K >> I think this is why they stick to such a limited set of cards.  Wouldn't J >> other proprietary, non-X86 O/S'es have the same set of problems?  (I.E.F >> Solaris Sparc, HP-UX, IBM, Apple OS X, etc. etc.)  Do Linux and BSDI >> running on X86 support many PCI graphics cards that they don't support E >> on non-X86 architectures?  (Because on X86, they can probably just H >> execute the onboard ROM rather than trying to figure out what it doesI >> and emulate it, making the creation of an X86 Linux driver much easier F >> than the creation of a PowerPC or Sparc Linux driver, for example.)F >> The vast hoards of open-source Linux driver developers would have aL >> much easier time making a new graphics card work on an X86 than elsewhere >> (but still not trivial.)  >>1 >> I bet sound cards have the same set of issues.  >  > K > John, you realize what you're doing, don't you?  That was a 5 gallon can  2 > of gas thrown onto the "port VMS to x86" demand. >   G :-)  And it will probably turn out that I am completely wrong about all @ this, but that doesn't make the slightest difference...  :-) :-)     --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:50:13 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L, Message-ID: <451492CF.F7C1D2BE@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:J > John, you realize what you're doing, don't you?  That was a 5 gallon can2 > of gas thrown onto the "port VMS to x86" demand.  D The demand is big enough that even that quantity of accelerant won't make much of a difference :-)   A Seriously though, I realise that FredK is probably not allowed to A discuss this, but it would be really interesting to hear from him H whether a VMS running on 8086 architecture  would make it much easier to& code drivers for those graphics cards.  E Also, in the early days of IA64 and the port of VMS, since IA64 had a F built-in 8086 emulator, would this have made the coding of the driversE much easier if that portion had remained part of the IA64 chips since  Merced/McKinley ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 19:15:50 -0400 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> ! Subject: Re: hp advocacy web site I Message-ID: <8660a3a10609221615k48d75d11g9b130573c99919b0@mail.gmail.com>   ) ------=_Part_14686_11780865.1158966950961 ; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inline   > On 22 Sep 2006 05:47:28 -0700, Ian Miller <ijm@uk2.net> wrote: > ? > anyone know what happened to http://www.hpuseradvocacy.org/ ?  >  >  Wasn't that an Interex thing?   1 If so then it probably disappeared when they did.   F Also it appears that the "voice of the customer" site has disappeared.   WWWebb   --   Ajilon Consulting  Site resident at Quest Diagnostics = first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,"COMPRESS").com   ) ------=_Part_14686_11780865.1158966950961 + Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  Content-Disposition: inline   4<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 22 Sep 2006 05:47:28 -0700, <b class="gmail_sendername">Ian Miller</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:ijm@uk2.net">ijm@uk2.net</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> anyone know what happened to <a href="http://www.hpuseradvocacy.org/">http://www.hpuseradvocacy.org/</a> ?<br><br></blockquote></div><br>Wasn't that an Interex thing?<br><br>If so then it probably disappeared when they did.  <br><br>Also it appears that the &quot;voice of the customer&quot; site has disappeared.<br><br>WWWebb<br><br>-- <br>Ajilon Consulting<br>Site resident at <br>Quest Diagnostics<br>first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,&quot;COMPRESS&quot;).com   + ------=_Part_14686_11780865.1158966950961--    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2006 15:49:04 -04003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> ! Subject: Re: Keyboard question... . Message-ID: <mddirjfd6mn.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  6 Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes:   > JF Mezei wrote:     [snip]   N >> Can anyone confirm if it is in fact a standrad 9 pin connector and what sex9 >> is on the cabinet (or what sex I need for the cable) ?     [snip]   @ > As for sex on the cabinet, I think it is a bit small for that,A > although you won't have far to fall if you do try it.   I think A > the top of a VAX 780 or similar would give you a bit more room, C > although the height might be a bit daunting.   (P.S. My wife says  > an 8600 is better.)   J Of course the 8600 is better for sex!  After all, its code name was Venus.   --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:50:59 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> ! Subject: Re: Keyboard question... : Message-ID: <CMWdnQFmgsk6o4nYnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@comcast.com>   Rich Alderson wrote:8 > Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes: >  >  >>JF Mezei wrote:  >  > 	 >  [snip]  >  > N >>>Can anyone confirm if it is in fact a standrad 9 pin connector and what sex9 >>>is on the cabinet (or what sex I need for the cable) ?  >  > 	 >  [snip]  >  > @ >>As for sex on the cabinet, I think it is a bit small for that,A >>although you won't have far to fall if you do try it.   I think A >>the top of a VAX 780 or similar would give you a bit more room, C >>although the height might be a bit daunting.   (P.S. My wife says  >>an 8600 is better.)  >  > L > Of course the 8600 is better for sex!  After all, its code name was Venus. > ? Not only that but it's nice and warm on top of the cabinet. :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 13:15:46 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com>  Subject: Sydney Rdb Tech Forum1 Message-ID: <ef2fno$qmi$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi,   L Just a quick couple of things about this week's Rdb Tech Forum in Sydney for. those who might not hear from other sources: -  H 1) The "truly debilitating piece of redundancy that is RTNUSENOTALL" hasL *finally* been removed! This is great news for all you people out there withK images installed with privs. (The earliest whinge of mine that I could find 7 was 25-Aug-2000) BIND ON SERVER bites the dust as well!   G 2) Rdb has finally woken up to the VMS Rserved Memory Registry! (Norm's K obviously had enough of that big "L" on his forehead over Granularity Hints L :-) There is stilll a bullshit restriction imposed on Global Buffer size andH Norm refused to implement the rdb$vintage Global Buffer root variable soI that your VLM Global Buffers could survive database closure. But let's be D happy for a while! (The earliest whing of mine that I could find was 25-Mar-2002)  L 3) "SQL> Set Session Authorization Persona :ws_integer" is . . . sadly stillI not here :-( but I could not find a single person who had any idea why it L shouldn't be implemented. Please contact your Rdb support person if you want? user auditing with APACHE, ACMS, Tier3. (First whinge Year dot)    4) Too many Kiwis :-)    Cheers Richard Maher  A PS. The weather was *much* better than Perth I am ashamed to say.   G PPS. I'd just like to take this opportunity to wish my taxi driver from L Wednesday morning all the best with his upcoming colonoscopy! I sure hope itJ works out. And thanks evr so much for sharing your medical history with meK while stuck in traffic on the way to the Opera House! Ahh the things people K tell you after you've had a full English breakfast! The word "Lesions" just * conjures up all sorts or images for me :-(  2 PPPS. Thanks, as always, to Kevein Duffy and crew!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:22:21 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS : Message-ID: <Wv2dnYYSmqV8tInYnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@comcast.com>   Michael Kraemer wrote:  O > In article <0001HW.C13979E0006FE497F02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture ( > <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes: > I >>Since I have one of these in mint condition, I asked here if some kind  J >>of converter existed to connect it to a PS2 socket, and hence my Alpha. J >>The answer I got here at the time was that they are so different inside G >>that there is probably  no chance of swapping cables etc, and little  + >>chance of finding a USB converter either.  >  > @ > well, there are USB <=> PS/2 and even HIL <=> PS/2 converters,) > what's so special about that keyboard ?  >    > * >>I still can't bear to recycle it though. >  > ? > Before dumping it I would really consider selling it on eBay, B > you won't make a fortune, of course, but these parts might still  > have some value since they areH > pretty rare these days, as are e.g. VAX mice, keyboard/mouse splitters3 > and those combined monitor/keyboard/mouse cables.  >   I What are VAX mice going for?  I have three VSXXX-WA mice new in box that  9 I bought at the Trenton Computer Festival many years ago.   $ I'm sure I could spare at least two.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 20:05:15 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS , Message-ID: <ef1flr$sgh$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>  M In article <ef0k6f$k96$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: u >In article <0001HW.C1399C020077E47CF02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes: D >>On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:34:52 +0200, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote0 >>(in article <ef0e8c$ih5$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>): >> >>> O >>> I have a UK VMS keyboard with PS2 connector which makes the rather annoying M >>> clicking noise whenever you hit the keys and which I have connected to an R >>> Alpha. I can't remember the keyboard designation but I'll look it up and post  >> >>> details later. >>F >>I'd forgotten about that clicking noise, but yes, I could give it a - >>home if the postage costs aren't too great.  >>G >Sorry I think you have misunderstood. I was posting in response to the  >discussion following  >  >Alexandre Laguejacques' >  >"F >As to my question about a DEC equivalent to the IBM model M keyboard,H >sorry for not being more explicit.  It's the old AT keyboard introduced? >with the PS/2 that makes a very audible clicking sound.  I was D >wondering if DEC had produced anything similar since I have troubleF >typing on the newer plastic oatmeal keyboards.  Now I have to wonder,F >even if this existed, it probably would be so old as to not work with/ >the standard Alpha keyboard connection anyway.  >" >  >and >  >Michael Kraemer's >  >"F >The keyboards that come native with VAXstations (and DECstations too,A >for that matter) make an audible clicking sound, a bit too noisy A >for my ears, unfortunately. They have, however, an MMJ connector 8 >so they don't plug in the usual alphas, at least AFAIK. >" > L >Just pointing out that a keyboard which makes an audible clicking sound and- >would connect to an Alpha system does exist. P >I wasn't offering to give anyone the keyboard just to post details of the model >number when I can look it up. >     5 Just confirmed that the keyboard model is an LK450-AA         
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   >  >  >> >>--   >>Paul Sture >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:05:11 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS , Message-ID: <451441F3.AB4784C4@teksavvy.com>  ' alexandre.laguejacques@gmail.com wrote:  >  > Hi JF, > H > I'm in Montral.  That's a good idea, though.  I remember visiting notG > too long ago the web site of a nearby DECUS (or something like that).  > Google will help me!    F If you are patient and things work out for me, I might be able to giveH you a 3100-30 with SPX card and 32 meg of memory.  But you might be ableF to find much more powerful machines around. YOu need to keep your eyes: openes in the newsgroups to see what offers might be made.  B generally something akin to "We have a couple of Vaxes that are noC longer needed and if someone can give them a good home, it would be 5 better than sending them to the physical garbage can.     G (If you send a VAX to its own NLA0:, is it like the vacuum cleaner that + sucks itself out of existance in cartoons ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:07:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS , Message-ID: <45144299.1EDABEF7@teksavvy.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:@ >    I don't recall DEC ever putting keyclick in its keyboards.    I recall the same.  E For keyclick, nothing beats the original IBM 3270 terminal keyboards. ? The keyboards would solid, heavy. And the keys had a mechanical ; clicking. I can still remember the type of sound they made.   > For DEC terminals, the clicking was software. On the VT220/320G terminals, you could enable/disable keyclicks. On VAX workstations, you B could not only enable disable keyclick, but also set their volume.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 23:50:13 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS B Message-ID: <0001HW.C13A273500988511F02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>  B On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:16:15 +0200, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote. (in article <ef0k6f$k96$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>):  H > Sorry I think you have misunderstood. I was posting in response to the > discussion following   >   < My apologies for getting hold of the wrong end of the stick.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 2006 21:43:01 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS , Message-ID: <ef1ld501urq@enews2.newsguy.com>  ) Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> wrote: > > for a hobbyist anything above and including alphastation 500A > is enough, but keep an eye on the gfx card, since many (most ?) # > aren't supported by VMS any more.   L Avoid the AlphaStation 500's like the plague unless they come with plenty ofB RAM.  Even now the RAM tends to cost more than a better computer. L Personally based on the prices I see on eBay, I'd recommend getting either aH PWS -au Series workstation, or an XP1000 off of eBay, or getting a DS10L from http://www.islandco.com/   J Not sure I agree with the the AlphaStation 500 or better machine, a nicelyL equiped AlphaStation 200 4/233 would still make a nice starter system, and aB second better box later will allow the OP to play with clustering.   		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:06:03 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS B Message-ID: <0001HW.C13A2AEB0099639BF02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>  < On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 20:22:21 +0200, Richard B. Gilbert wrote< (in article <Wv2dnYYSmqV8tInYnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@comcast.com>):   > K > What are VAX mice going for?  I have three VSXXX-WA mice new in box that  ; > I bought at the Trenton Computer Festival many years ago.  > & > I'm sure I could spare at least two.  F No idea, but ISTR an article from quite a few years ago where someone F with a bit of creativity managed to  cram the working essentials of a ! PS2 mouse into an old "puck" one.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:31:27 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS B Message-ID: <0001HW.C13A30DF009AC8E3F02845B0@mac.sture.homeip.net>  6 On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:30:59 +0200, John Forkosh wrote. (in article <ef0s33$asj$1@reader1.panix.com>):   > ? > I have an AlphaStation 200 that came with a keyboard that has = > a completely mechanical click.  It's labelled d|i|g|i|t|a|l A > on the front, but on the back it's an OEM'ed  Fujitsu keyboard, B > Model FKB4700, P/N PCXAL-FA.  It has a ps/2 connector, and works@ > transparently on a standard pc as well as on the AlphaStation. >   H But the crucial question is: "does it have "delete word" on the numeric 	 keypad?".    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.522 ************************