1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 23 Sep 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 523       Contents:# Re: All is not well at the HP board # Re: All is not well at the HP board # Re: All is not well at the HP board  Bangalore? Bring it on!!! " But Hoff, that is not the Sufi way, Re: DSPP: Delete Successful Product Programs, Re: DSPP: Delete Successful Product Programs Re: Dunn is done Re: Dunn is done Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L  Re: Graphic options for DS10L 1 In the Land of the Blind, the Hoff is truly King!  Re: Quid Pro Quo Clarrice , Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMSC What a game! (Was: Re: SSL cryptographic web browser vulnerability)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 04:56:49 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: All is not well at the HP board, Message-ID: <4514F6C7.FC7DFFFB@teksavvy.com>  F I listened to 2 MP3 files provided by CNET. One is the prepared speechD from Mark Hurd, and the other is a prepared speech from the law firm! hired to investigate the "issue".   G Hurd's speech seemed difficult for him to read/deliver without emotion.   < Hurd will go to Washington for that committee investigation.  F The leak investigation was in 2 phases.  July 2005 is when first phase ended in failure.   ) A second phase was begun in january 2006. H In february, Hurd approved some of the "branding" (naming convention) toG be used on a false email to be sent to journalists. Hurd states that he H was unaware at that time that travers would be included in those emails.  R In march 2006, Hurd got a verbal description of the progress of the investigation.  A "I understand that there was a written report addressed to me and @ others, but I did not read it. I could have, and I should have".    ? Now, I have difficulty with this. This is wishy washy stuff. "I G understand there was a report addressed to me". Either the guy received H the report or he didn't.   (that report contained the indications of the pretexting having been used).           H The law firm hired by Hurd provided a much better speech containing manyG facts. The stuff we read in the press is basically all true.  But there  are additional tidbits.   E There is evidence that social security numbers were provided by HP to D the spy agency (SOS) for HP relevant people being studied. It is notD know how the spy agency obtained the SSN for the reporters that were also spied on.    H For this to happen, the human resources people would have had to receiveC an order from someone very high up authorizing the release of those E SSNs. Either HR gave the numbers directly to SOS, or they gacve it to G some board member who then gave it to SOS.  Either way, the board would D have known/authorized that SSN numbers of HP employees/board membersE were being released to a 3rd party. The speech from the law firm does H not discuss this. It only states that there is evidence that HP provided the SSN to the SOS firm.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:14:47 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> , Subject: Re: All is not well at the HP board1 Message-ID: <ef31b4$l8g$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi,   K I don't usually post to theses threads, but I saw the following quote in an C article in Thursday's Sydney Morning Herald, and wasn't sure if the F "corporate culture" is meant to have been embraced by HP technical and5 support staff as much as by the Board of Directors: -   H "It betrays a type of corporate culture that is so self-obsessed, (that)I really considers itself not only above the law, but above I think ethical J decency, that you have to ask yourself, where did the shame come in?" said/ Charles King, an analyst with Pund-IT Research.   , Anyway, It certainly struck a chord with me.  K (I'm off to re-scan my DSPP Newsletters for spyware. Don't want anyone else  learning my Lotto numbers:-)   Regards Richard Maher   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:44FE2EE8.C4D4C84F@teksavvy.com... > > _ http://news.com.com/Media+leaks+prompt+HP+board+shake-up/2100-1014_3-6112501.html?tag=nefd.lede  >  > Leak occured. @ > Pat Dunn announces she is hiring a spy to find out who it was.J > One board member resigns over the hiring of a spy (on pricniple). He got0 > his residential phone line tapped as a result.J > And another board member's term was not renewed (leading one to think he' > was the one who had leaked the info).  >  > E > Interesting dilema for a board. You want strong and clean corporate F > governance. But you also want to be able to attract highly qualifiedF > board members. Do you really think that HP will be able to attrack 2F > highly qualified board members of high enough calibre when they knowE > that pat Dunn may just hire some spy to listen in on their personal  > phone conversations at home ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:14:48 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> , Subject: Re: All is not well at the HP board< Message-ID: <4515236c$0$24200$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  1 <tariq.1.rahim@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message  ; news:1158983988.882050.19780@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... E > HP has descended into the depths of evil. I predict the corporation F > winds up like Enron within 6 months, liquidated, its workers jobless/ > and homeless and bereft of their investments.  > L As long as there are no accounting irregularities I don't think HP will end  up like Enron.  H What is disturbing in all this is Patricia Dunn's mantra "I've not done J anything wrong" even though investigators from the state of California as 9 well as the federal government are telling her otherwise.   F This whole thing reminds me of the 1975 movie "Roller Ball" where all M governments have been replaced by multi-national corporations and individual  > rights are now limited based upon corporate economic concerns.  L Documents like the Magna Carta declare that no one is above the law and yet 1 lots of corporate fat cats behave as if they are.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada." http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:05:36 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> " Subject: Bangalore? Bring it on!!!1 Message-ID: <ef347n$p8m$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi Ian,   + "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> wrote in message < news:1158091615.200332.267700@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... > G > >    Image file and directory protections and context and OpenVMS I64  version, please? > I > What I did was change the protection of SYS$SHARE:MAILSHR.EXE from w:RE  > to w:E >  > VMS I64 V8.3 and V8.2-1  >   J Please provide CCT footage of you at the keyboard while these commands areK being typed in. It is important that you ensure that there is a large clock G with a sweeping second hand in the frame so that our support staff will K believe that you haven't tampered with anythying! Please also sample abient F room temperature at regular intervals. If you can wire-up one of thoseK black-box thingys under your seat then that could ensure a speedy diagnosis  of your problem.  G Once this has been done please pack up your entire office into an Ocean 1 Container (along with yourself) and ship it to: -    The Great Oz Ivory Tower  Emerald City  G BTW, try to keep your ego out of things as that never helps. Otherwise, H before you know it you'll have your own blogg or something. So just wind your bloody neck in Ian! Ok :-)    Cheers Richard Maher  K PS. They may only be able to tell you to "Turn it off and Turn it on again" ? but the lack of attitude's gonna be like a breath of fresh air!   K PPS. The joke is noone seems to give a shit that a lot of UWSSs that *were* I protected against linking and previously (on Alpha and VAX) could only be G run in the context of the driving image, can now be linked (or lib$fis) L against by anyone in the WORLD. She'll be right . . .I mean how bad could it be?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 14:44:33 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> + Subject: But Hoff, that is not the Sufi way 1 Message-ID: <ef2ku8$4dl$1@news-02.connect.com.au>   	 Hi Steve,   8 >    I would ask that non-privileged system crashers and( > system security issues  not be posted.  K Well, you say that, but then there are other HP employees who are more than K willing to discuss security issues in public forums, at least when it comes I to other people's code, even when those security issues are imaginary and  totally without foundation.   I Take John Gillings for instance (strange I didn't see him at the Rdb Tech L Forum; maybe HP is too far from Oracle? Timing clash with his Urdu lessons?)J he is more than happy to spread FUD like the following publicly (sponsored, by HP and in HP's own IT Resource Centre): -  W http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/questionanswer.do?threadId=1007568 C "For a start, I'd want to see some far more extensive validation of ; arguments before deploying your code on one of my systems."   H Then, when confronted with the facts, instead of retracting his bullshitK (let alone appologizing) he continues to FUD and smear along the lines that J if my Alpha code was run on a VAX then it would crash it. I wonder how oneL of my customers would feel, faced with this uwarranted and unfounded attack?  L But before I began to take it too personally or litigiously, I stepped back,K took a deep breath and said "It's a newsgroup; if you can't stand the heat, L stay out of the kitchen! Things are said in the heat of the moment.". I thenJ launched a spirited defence of my software and set the record straight forA every reasonable person to see. It was at this point that another L book-burner from HP goose-stepped all over my posts, while choosing to leave? the offending and comercially damaging posts up for all to see.   I So rather than being punished, admonished or at least asked to appologize L and set the record straight, John Gillings was treated as a made-man, and asI such was to be afforded the protection of the middle-management-mafia. If I any customers or upper-management were to question what was going on then J just produce that list of Dickie's quotes from the Web that Hoff told HP'sD VMSNOTES users he's been colating. Should be able to spin out of anyK accountability situation nicely with that little arsenal! (Mind you, having H seen what HP "upper-management" get's up to, I can't see them asking too many questions. Can you?)   K So am I to take the above personally? Or is it not du rigeur to explore, at 6 length, security vulnerabilities in *everyone's* code?   Regards Richard Maher   J PS. I've got plenty of copies of ya mate Gilly's crap already, in case youF were thinking of removing it now. Restoring my reply will be just fine thanks!    PPS. Go Weagles!!!  9 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote in message $ news:450059f7@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > Richard Maher wrote: > K > > Hope to finish the draft-code this weekend.  Then you can put it on any H > > machine you like and drop the last longword and see what happens :-) > > ) > > Below is a snippet if you can't wait.  > H >    I would ask that non-privileged system crashers and system security issues > not be posted. > G >    I will forward this along to the appropriate folks here in OpenVMS I > Engineering, and as I have offered in the past -- various folks here in G > engineering are quite willing to accept direct email reports of these  sorts of- > (severe) problems, support contract or not.  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:59:45 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG5 Subject: Re: DSPP: Delete Successful Product Programs 0 Message-ID: <00A5C277.14402367@SendSpamHere.ORG>  L In article <XHIQg.3506$Fh.1585@trnddc07>, John Santos <john@egh.com> writes: >  >  >JF Mezei wrote:$ >> VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>  P >>>No more SDK!  No more access to OpenVMS distros.  No more 3rd party products. >>   >>  H >> is this an Alpha thing, or does this change cover both Alpha and thatI >> IA64 thing ? Since HP is about to stop Alpha sales,  the portfolion of G >> Alpha apps is no longer relevant to HP since they aren't going to be - >> showcasing this to any potential customer.  >>   >>  H >> And in terms of the reaction to this, my guess is that contacting Sue >> might be the best avenue. > G >We have a support contract on our Alphas so it doesn't directly effect J >me (except I no longer get multiple copies of each quarter's LP condist),G >but I'm pretty sure they said you could order a single copy of the VMS G >distribution and a single copy of the latest condist whenever you want F >to with a hefty DSPP discount (25%, maybe).  I think the total workedH >out pretty close to the $5-600 it used to cost for DSPP membership plusF >SDK.  I haven't tried to do this, maybe HP doesn't know they sell VMS >or condists.  :-)  E Try calling the 800 number for DSPP ordering and mention you that you F want purchase VMS anything.  Let me know how many times you are handedF off to another phone/dept. and forwarded to sales reps in distribution channels that can't spell VMS.   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:25:00 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 5 Subject: Re: DSPP: Delete Successful Product Programs < Message-ID: <451541ee$0$24180$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:4511A999.6EF23AC7@teksavvy.com...# > VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  >>F >> No more SDK!  No more access to OpenVMS distros.  No more 3rd party >> products. > G > is this an Alpha thing, or does this change cover both Alpha and that H > IA64 thing ? Since HP is about to stop Alpha sales,  the portfolion ofF > Alpha apps is no longer relevant to HP since they aren't going to be, > showcasing this to any potential customer. > A Funny you ask. If you go through the corporate registration (DSPP J registration options - Register new company) they ask you to choose things like:   	   HP 3000    IA64  L But no mention of Alpha (or VAX). On another panel they do offer the choice  of OpenVMS.     
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:56:36 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch>  Subject: Re: Dunn is done J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-FB602C.10563623092006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  + In article <ef1urv$oqj$1@naig.caltech.edu>, )  David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote:   P > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060922/ap_on_hi_te/hewlett_packard_directors_41;_H > ylt=AuwGd1VHyKgXZiq2glSZv_vD_P0h;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl    And no picture at all there now.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 05:22:01 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> Subject: Re: Dunn is done ) Message-ID: <op.tgbzaziytte90l@hyrrokkin>   1 On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 01:56:36 -0700, Paul Sture  =   % <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> wrote:   - > In article <ef1urv$oqj$1@naig.caltech.edu>, + >  David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote:  > I >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060922/ap_on_hi_te/hewlett_packard_direc= 	 tors_41;_ I >> ylt=3DAuwGd1VHyKgXZiq2glSZv_vD_P0h;_ylu=3DX3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVR=  PUCUl  > " > And no picture at all there now. >  And now it is Hurd     -- =  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 19:11:43 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>& Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L* Message-ID: <45146db1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:451399B5.43793DCA@teksavvy.com...J > Is there some "big picture" document that described how the OS interacts > with a graphics card ? >   H The BIG picture is the X11 programming interface.  In general, the stuffL under the covers of X11 isn't as well documented - because, well - there areH very few of us who actually do it.  But there are things floating around; from say, the late 80's when people tried to write it down.   L Surf the web.  Install RedHat on your PC and get the Xfree86 server sources.J You will find everything you need to know to get started.  Once you masterJ that, and write your first Xfree86 DDX - even an XAA based one - send me aJ copy, and I'll dig up the documentation on te VMS-specific things that are done to support X11 graphics.   H > FredK mentioned that VMS for instance is likely to use 32 bits and use5 > the last 8 bits for special stuff like alpha value.  >   K You take what the hardware gives you, and what the X11 server demands - and H then how much time you are willing to put into it.  Packed 24-bit pixelsE requires you to use *very* different logic than 32-bit pixels.  It is A essentially unnatural in terms of programming - consider the user G application probably doesn't want to deal with packed 24-bits either (a G tribyte value is just a huge pain as an arreay of values).  While I can I think of some cards that allow it - I can't think of many (well, actually " any) servers that tried to use it.  F Why would you even try?  Well, in the days when VRAM was expensive andI limited - it saved space.  Today cards use cheap and generous sized DRAM.   H The other 8-bits - well, that is really hardware dependent.  They may beK useless on a 2D card - or they may select how the pixel is interpreted (for H example, this is how the TGA2 can do multiple simultanious depths).  ForI 3D - it is a good place to store alpha transparency - heck some old cards 5 used it for Z.  It really is very, very HW dependent.   K If you have plenty of time, you might accelerate pixmaps by implementing an L offscreen pixmap memory manager - rather than using CFB which is what 80% ofH all servers do.  Perhaps you will instead cache font glyphs in offscreenK memory.  Or maybe you punt it completely and leave offscreen memory unused.   I > Does the OS really have any control over how the graphics card behaves, H > or does the graphics card have a variety of options and the OS chooses > one or the other ? >   L The "OS" doesn't - the server DDX and driver do.  And yes, like almost everyG device I know of - there are features that are used - and features that I aren't.  Sometimes this is because the HW has modes that are designed for H the graphics semantics of Windows as well as X11.  Sometimes - it's justL because using the feature is a whole lot of work and there isn't enough timeI or resources to do it - say supporting the TV tuner and overlays.  It all  depends.  E Most cards support TrueColor 24-bit pixels directly.  But oddly, most K servers/drivers program the DAC to 24-bit direct color and load a TrueColor  ramp.  Another unused feature.  I > Another example: From what I have read, VMS does not enable/support the D > DVI output of the Radeon 7500. Wouldn't it be a simple case of VMSH > depositing a couple of values in a register and making an interrupt so1 > that the graphics cards turns on the DVI port ?  >   G If it were a matter of "depositing a couple of values in a register and J making an interrupt so that the graphics cards turns on the DVI port" thenJ we would have done it.  Programming of the DVI (and initialization itself)L is highly card dependent - and poorly documented.  Why?  Linux and UNIX tendK to use a BIOS emulator to do it... which is something we are working on for H Itanium.  On Windows the card vendor writes the code - and they do *not*H like to expose their Windows source to anyone - crown jewels as it were.I The DVI port *works* if the card was initialized by the BIOS *and* if the I monitor was connected when the BIOS initialized.  Unfortunately, the only J card you can depend on to be initialized by the BIOS is generally the card used as the VGA console.  H > Or would VMS truly have to provide data in a very different way to the; > graphics card in order for the DVI output to ne enabled ?  >   G It is simply a matter of knowing how to perform some very card-specific E actions that aren't typically exposed in a well documented way to X11  Linux/UNIX developers.   > B > And if VMS lacks the feature that enables the DVI port, is thereH > anything preventing a privileged user from accessing the graphics cardF > directly and making the interrupts/data transfer necessary to turn a7 > port on or off (DVI, or the composite video output) ?  >   H Have at it.  Find the HW documentation, PFN map the device and whack it.J You must feel we don't support it because we are lazy or just want to makeJ you unhappy.  Hint:  No interrupts needed - oh, wait - you think this is a PC with an Int10.    > E > On an old mac, I can dynamically change the screen size/resolution, I > without impacting applications or having to reboot.  On VMS, could this  > be feasable ?  >   H This is a generic problem in X11 - because applications need to (or can)L know to much about the pixel and screen format, there are issues (especiallyE if you change the depth).  Could we change just the screen resolution @ on-the-fly - probably without too much difficulty using some X11L extension...  but IMHO the need to do this on-the-fly is more tied to thingsD like dual monitors on a Laptop - where it makes sense that you might. want/need to change the resolution on the fly.  K Anything is possible given enough time and resources - and where there is a  reasonable payback.   I Imagine your X11 application has started running, it opened the display - J found out that it had a 24-bit TrueColor pixel - but in the middle of yourL application running - the pixel format changes to 8-bit pseudo color.  Well,J either the X11 server then needs to emulate the 24-bit pixel depth for youJ (very hard) - or it needs a way tell you that the pixel (and image) formatI has changed - and you might not even then be able to run (for example you J might *need* 24-bit pixels).  Or the X11 server can *always* run in 24-bitD mode and always *emulate* 8-bit and 16-bit modes (perhaps slow - butL possible - a Sun server once did this IIRC on a low-end card back in the day9 that they had lots of people doing graphics engineering).   B Or let's say the resolution is changed on the fly - and instead ofH 1920x1200 - you are now at 800x600 - and none of your windows fit on theF screen any more - less of a problem than the pixel format - but doableE (except for the odd really boneheaded application) using more-or-less  conventional X11 mechanisms.  K When X11 was designed - hardware was slower and more limited, and there was L a belief that it needed to run on a toaster.  So no floating point, no trulyJ complex problems were solved (KISS was the watchword).  But the end resultD was to enable applications to know far too much about the underlying	 hardware.   H Again - what exact issue are you trying to solve?  You just want to haveA that little application to play with to find the best resolution?   J > I assume one would have to access the graphics card to tell it to resizeJ > the screen area, and somehow tell the X server to also resize the screen) > area. Are there mechanisms to do that ?  >   E There are no standard mechanisms.  I believe that there may be an X11 H extension on Linux that does something along these lines.  The change in* size *has* to pass through the X11 server.  D > When the X server starts up, I realise that it looks at a bunch ofF > symbols and logicals to set a lot of the parameters (as opposed to aH > control panel on a MAC that does this dynamically). But could the codeA > that does that be called at times other than X server startup ?  >   J Again.  Why?  Give me a concrete reason that we should do this work.  WhatF are you trying to solve?  Frankly it has to be a *strong* reason.  For9 example, would you choose this over - say - a VNC server?    > J > Seems like graphic cards are voodoo magic happening behind the scenes. I$ > would liek a better understanding.  ; Graphics cards *are* part engineering and part vodoo magic.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 02:55:10 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L, Message-ID: <4514DA4C.BB7C244F@teksavvy.com>   FredK wrote:J > The BIG picture is the X11 programming interface.  In general, the stuff3 > under the covers of X11 isn't as well documented    H Thansk for you point of view. My question wasn't meant as a complaint orH request for improvements. Just a better understanding of what really has	 to go on.   E When a machine powers up and displays stuff on the console, surely it E means that there is some code that is pretty standard in the graphics C cards tro allow basic text display in a standard way ? This is well  before X11 starts.  G When a new card comes out and you guys decide to support it on VMS, are E you saying that all of the work is done exclusively in the X11 server  code ?  G Would there also be a need to have the colsole code be given ability to @ duisplay text onto that card (during booting process, prior to X starting) ?   H Also, in terms of the actual communications between X11 software and theE graphics card, wouldn't there be a need for a driver to exist ? Is it G fair to state that each graphgics card has its onw driver ? Or is there H a generic class driver and it is X11 that has all the card specific code in it ?   E Or does X11 bypass the driver  concept (which I assume would involved H lots and lots of $QIOs) and manage to talk directly to the card via someG PCI interface ? (and how does an application talk to a PCI interface ?)   I > If it were a matter of "depositing a couple of values in a register and L > making an interrupt so that the graphics cards turns on the DVI port" thenL > we would have done it.  Programming of the DVI (and initialization itself)3 > is highly card dependent - and poorly documented.   A Your message gives me the impression that when you guys choose to = support card XYZ, the vendor of card XYZ doesn't give you any F support/documentation and that you guys have to reverse engineer based< on what others have done. Is that a correct interpretation ?  E I would have hoped/expected that the card vendor would have given you 8 all the specs and programming standards for their cards.  D In terms of if DVI or even composite output. Would this be a case ofB just sending one "command" to the card and continuing to send yourF graphics in the same way/format to the card and letting the card worryE about how it rasterised and outputs the signals ? or would it require H that X11 change the way it formats its data and sends them to the card ?         > Why?  Linux and UNIX tend M > to use a BIOS emulator to do it... which is something we are working on for 
 > Itanium.  G Isn't BIOS on its way out to be replaced by EFI even on wintel machines F ?  And if you are going to build an emulated BIOS is there a technicalG reason why it would be limited to IA64 and not Alpha too ? (since it is  a shared code base) ?     L > you unhappy.  Hint:  No interrupts needed - oh, wait - you think this is a > PC with an Int10.   C I have 0 clue on how software on VMS manages to draw something on a < screen. Hence my question. I also do not know how PCI works.    K > Imagine your X11 application has started running, it opened the display - L > found out that it had a 24-bit TrueColor pixel - but in the middle of yourG > application running - the pixel format changes to 8-bit pseudo color.     H I realise X11 is quite different, but the MAC, designed in 1984, is ableH to handle this. (colour support was put in before colour displays becameG available for MACs). So it si a bit strange that X11, which is younger, ; would have been architected to much more primitive support.       D > Or let's say the resolution is changed on the fly - and instead ofJ > 1920x1200 - you are now at 800x600 - and none of your windows fit on the > screen any more   F MAC handles this. It moves the window title pane to within the smallerC screen area if it would have been completely out fo it. (so you can 9 still click it). Windows that are bigger are not resized.   D Obviously, if you have a window manager rule/setting that forces allG windows to fit within the screen area, this causes a problem, but can't E the Xserver simply send resize events to each window that needs to be  shrunk ?  = > Graphics cards *are* part engineering and part vodoo magic.     F There is a mention thats ome cards have some 8086 architecture code inG their rom that they expect the host computer to execute. Is that really F the case ? Since these cards have their own processors and own memory,D wouldn't it be a case of just transfering data to/from the card with= some PCI signal to tell the card to accept the data/command ?   " Does PCI allow for DMA transfers ?   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 15:19:59 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L( Message-ID: <ef3jav$fk3$1@pcls4.std.com>  = "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> writes:   K >> Also, I'll be buying a SCSI card (needed to plug in a CD drive initially H >> to load VMS onto the baby). Island suggested the KZPBA-CA.  Is this aI >> full featured SCSI card I will be able to boot from, or is that one of E >> those retrictive Digital products with very limited functionlity ?  >>E >> Anytone know where I can get the specs/instruction on such cards ? K >> (notably what sort of connector I will need, or if I can rig up standard ( >> 50 pin ribbon cable from the inside).  @ >Another video option that is often overlooked is the ATI RadeonD >7000/7500.  Since you now have an EV6 class system you can use that >card also.   J I see the Radeon 7500 works at better resolution than 1280x1024.  Does VMSD support any of these higher resolutions on the 7500?  Do any of them( work or mostly work but are unsupported?   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2006 08:38:53 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10LC Message-ID: <1159025933.707241.261580@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Michael Moroney wrote:? > "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> writes:  > M > >> Also, I'll be buying a SCSI card (needed to plug in a CD drive initially J > >> to load VMS onto the baby). Island suggested the KZPBA-CA.  Is this aK > >> full featured SCSI card I will be able to boot from, or is that one of G > >> those retrictive Digital products with very limited functionlity ?  > >>G > >> Anytone know where I can get the specs/instruction on such cards ? M > >> (notably what sort of connector I will need, or if I can rig up standard * > >> 50 pin ribbon cable from the inside). > B > >Another video option that is often overlooked is the ATI RadeonF > >7000/7500.  Since you now have an EV6 class system you can use that
 > >card also.  > L > I see the Radeon 7500 works at better resolution than 1280x1024.  Does VMSF > support any of these higher resolutions on the 7500?  Do any of them* > work or mostly work but are unsupported?  : OpenVMS supports up to 2048x1536 with 8 or 16-bit color atA 60,65,70,75hz refresh rates on the Radeon 7500.  You must drop to A 1600x1200 for 24-bit color.  This information is available in the ! Radeon 7500 Installation Guide at B http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/download/ek_r7500_ig_a01.pdf   John H. Reinhardt    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 15:20:09 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> : Subject: In the Land of the Blind, the Hoff is truly King!1 Message-ID: <ef2n10$778$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi Dave,  4 "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message3 news:ZumdnXXX0vajcpfYnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@libcom.com... H > Is that a tease?  I'm sure I'm not the only one following this thread.I > Some of us may be interested in what caused the problem.  Since you say C > it takes priviledge to cause the crash, you wouldn't be causing a . > problem in going public with what you found.  J I can't promise you an answer but FWIW here are my thoughts on what may'veK happened. (Given the reported truth and integrity vacuums that appear to be J prevailing, this is probably the best you'll get. I can't tell you whetherJ my theory it's right or wrong (until the next source code release), but ifG you (or anyone) can tell me why it's not possible, or correct, then I'm " happy to have another look at it.)  F [Or I could just wait for the dump to complete again, and see if I canJ convert the System Dump PC into the line number/address in the VMS source,C or reverse engineer the last macro-64 instructions into their Bliss J counterparts; that too would be good :-) Must be a Fine Manual around here on Reading a System Dump.]   In the meantime: -  J 1) As reported, an item list to $audit_event (when left un terminated) was1 observed to crash the system from User Mode code.   L 2) On Planet Dickie, Item Lists are passed By Reference, therefore I believeJ that everything following the Audit_List in the same Cobol PSECT up to theH first occuring aligned or coded zero-lognword (in the correct terminatorH offset) will be processed by $audit_event in situ, and that something in7 that compiler initialized memory is causing the problem   E 3) I wrote a subroutine to mimic the Item_List parse by receiving the I Item_List By Reference and dumping out its contents until I found a valid H terminating longword. (The complete output of which is below. As you canG see, my program says there are now 27 item list entries rather than the  expected 12) "  J 4) If my theory was correct then item 13 (unlucky for some :-) should failH any validation check 'cos surely 20526 is greater than nsa$_max_itm_codeI which  is 279 on my box but 283 on later versions. For those of you ASCII I buffs, I once again submit that this is the contents of audit_object_name F (ie: St.Peter blah blah . . . all the way to the end of the Uai_List.)  D 5) As a test, I added these items to the end of the Audit_List after Item_Time_Stamp: -     03  item_crash. 2         05  pic s9(4)       comp    value   29779.2         05  pic s9(4)       comp    value   20526.7         05  pic s9(9)       comp    value   1919251557. 7         05  pic s9(9)       comp    value   1953841440. .     03  item_terminate   pic s9(9)       comp.J And guess what? It still crashed; so I think we're doing ok so far! Off to look at the code again.   K 6) If you look at the nsa$size_nsab routine in security_auditing_64.lis  at K line 1085, you will see that it does in fact check that the item code is in F the valid range of 1 to nsa$_max_itm_code. So why isn't that simple IF returning ss$_baditmcod?  K 7) Hold everything! What do we have lurking up there at line 1079? Could it  be: -   ?     if .nsa$validate_table[.item_code, itm_size_min] eql ignore   L But if nsa$validate_table is only nsa$max_itm_code big, then what happens if8 VMS engineering attempts to reference element (20526)???  K Elsewhere in the source lines (711, 721) and nsa$itmlst_to_pktlst (283) the K order of the checks is reversed, as expected. But what about the comment on H line 101 on 20-Nov-1997 "Reorder parameter checking to avoid bogus array index values in NSA$SIZE_NSAB."   D Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to assemble the previouslyL convened dream-team of Hoffman, Plato, Socrates, Da Vinci and Einstein to doJ a code review, but at face value (at least to me) it looks decidedly fishyK to do a table lookup for an element before validating that the subscript is > in range. Maybe Bliss needs some /CHECK=BOUNDS trainer-wheels?  F But I don't know Bliss so maybe it just knows, and I'm jumping the gunF again. If only John Reagan hadn't been bound, gagged and thrown in theK basement then *he* could've told us :-( Off to find another Bliss person. .  .   B 8) A mate tells me that the "uplit" part of the nsa$validate_tableL declaration materializes it in a read-only Psect at compile-time. (Just likeI Macro and Cobol can. These 3 great languages have much in common!) So I'm G guessing that the "ignore" flag lookup for item list entry 13 with just K calculate an address that is nsa$validate_table+(20526*bytes_per_entry) and L try to read it. Couldn't see enough after nsa$validate_table in the listingsJ to cover it so that probably explains why it varies from sysgen parameters to machines to quotas to . . .  E Anyway, the footy's back on and the Eagles are getting thrashed (were I consistent over here :-() Let me no if it doesn't stand up or if you like  it.   I If you think of it, I can't be right because this would warrant an urgent L fix as *any* call to $audit_event is now a time-bomb just waiting for a userG mode ponter to set it off. Or is it a case of "She'll be right"? hasn't G happened all these years and we don't want to panic anyone with another L security release. (Anyone seen the release note for $create_user_profile andG the user-mode corruption of exec-mode memory? Nah must've been dreaming  there too.)   L YES, This is all tongue in cheek! If it is a bug then it's just that; a bug!I Fix it and move on - no big deal. I've gone out of my way to sound like a I pompous arse here (not much trouble really :-)  because that is what your 4 superior, arrogant, self-indulgent crap sounds like.   Cheers Richard Maher  I NB: I must stress at this point that no thorough review of any VMS source F code including, but not limited to, $audit_event and any subroutine it> invokes, has taken place. I do not offer any opinion as to theF merchantability of said software nor to its fitness for any particularK purpose. If I have identified a bug then all well and good (and soon may it J be fixed) but I by no means warrant that is the last bug in these modules,K nor that the probing of arguments covers multiple page boundries, an yadda,  yadda yadda. . .  H PS. Anyone see bits of the Steve Irwin memorial the other day? When JohnK Williamson sang Steve's favourite song? You used to be able to hear it ring L out through the suburbs after a bbq when the blokes had had just enough beerK that they'd start babling and telling everyone just how much "I love yous!" H (In a Perth sense and not the Sydney sense :-) Anyway, you don't hear it3 much anymore and I for one had to wipe away a tear!    Is it standin by your mate when he's in a fi-ight?  Or just "She'll be right"?  % Tru-oo-oo-blue, I'm arrrskin YOUUUUU!    Item_list Dump: - > Item (1) code = 89 len = 4 addr_1 = 000200A0 addr_2 = 00000000> Item (2) code = 90 len = 4 addr_1 = 000200B8 addr_2 = 00000000= Item (3) code = 3 len = 8 addr_1 = 00020228 addr_2 = 00000000 = Item (4) code = 6 len = 8 addr_1 = 00020228 addr_2 = 00000000 @ Item (5) code = 189 len = 16 addr_1 = 00020218 addr_2 = 00000000? Item (6) code = 29 len = 31 addr_1 = 000201F8 addr_2 = 00000000 > Item (7) code = 48 len = 4 addr_1 = 00020150 addr_2 = 00000000? Item (8) code = 192 len = 4 addr_1 = 0002035C addr_2 = 00000000 ? Item (9) code = 190 len = 4 addr_1 = 00020028 addr_2 = 00000000 ? Item (10) code = 56 len = 6 addr_1 = 000204F4 addr_2 = 00000000 ? Item (11) code = 80 len = 6 addr_1 = 0002051C addr_2 = 00000000 ? Item (12) code = 50 len = 8 addr_1 = 00020300 addr_2 = 00000000 F Item (13) code = 20526 len = 29779 addr_1 = 72657465 addr_2 = 74754120F Item (14) code = 29806 len = 25960 addr_1 = 74616369 addr_2 = 206E6F69F Item (15) code = 30322 len = 25939 addr_1 = 00207265 addr_2 = 61746544F Item (16) code = 25701 len = 26723 addr_1 = 6F725020 addr_2 = 73736563F Item (17) code = 21827 len = 17747 addr_1 = 59544952 addr_2 = 00160001@ Item (18) code = 2 len = 672 addr_1 = 00000000 addr_2 = 00150002@ Item (19) code = 2 len = 680 addr_1 = 00000000 addr_2 = 00120008@ Item (20) code = 2 len = 720 addr_1 = 00000000 addr_2 = 00130008@ Item (21) code = 2 len = 728 addr_1 = 00000000 addr_2 = 00230004@ Item (22) code = 2 len = 688 addr_1 = 00000000 addr_2 = 00190008@ Item (23) code = 2 len = 744 addr_1 = 00000000 addr_2 = 00140002@ Item (24) code = 2 len = 840 addr_1 = 00000000 addr_2 = 001E0008@ Item (25) code = 2 len = 760 addr_1 = 00000000 addr_2 = 001D0008@ Item (26) code = 2 len = 752 addr_1 = 00000000 addr_2 = 00000000> Item (27) code = 0 len = 3 addr_1 = 00000000 addr_2 = 0000E95C    4 "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message3 news:ZumdnXXX0vajcpfYnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@libcom.com...  > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > > K > > As it happens, the working theory was not the actual trigger here (data J > > often has a habit of derailing theories), but what was recently postedJ > > had sufficient data within to allow the identification of the specificG > > trigger from amid all the stack detritus that was located after the A > > (missing) termination within your particular OpenVMS run-time  environment. > H > Is that a tease?  I'm sure I'm not the only one following this thread.I > Some of us may be interested in what caused the problem.  Since you say C > it takes priviledge to cause the crash, you wouldn't be causing a . > problem in going public with what you found. >  > --  6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450@ > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > DFE Ultralights, Inc.  > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:45:56 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> " Subject: Re: Quid Pro Quo Clarrice1 Message-ID: <ef332r$nm4$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi Bob,   I >    When you post incomplete info, and someone tells you what we need to I >    know to give you a correct answer, thn he is HELPING you, whether it  >    suits your ego or not.   K I'm gonna have to re-read this thread again 'cos after being away for a few G days I seem to have lost track of who was giving and who was taking the B HELP. The way I remember it is that I was asking about weaker fileK protections (and therefore overall VMS security regime) needed to execute a I shareable image on Itanium. I still have not received a response to that. E Maybe I missed it or perhaps I was unclear/obtuse. I also asked why I L couldn't do EXEC mode i/o on an EXEC mode mailbox channel without SYSPRV andL gave a complete working example, but am still sadly yet to receive any HELP.K I also asked if lib$initialize routines for UWSSs are executed in EXEC mode K and after once more receiving zero help, I worked it out myself thanks very  much!   K If it is the $audit_event bugcheck that you are refering to then I tell you C solemnly that once I realised my schoolboy error in leaving off the E terminator and fixed it, I honestly couldn't give a shit about it. It H benefitted me only in being yet another (after DECdtm, $ICC and Fast I/OI XFC) User-Mode System Crasher stick to beat some holier-than-thou pompous  arse over the head with.  L As far as being the first to bring an ego to COV I have to appologize. If weC don't stamp that out now then they'll all be doing it. Next will be L personalities then foibles, temper tantrums and idiosyncrasies. I just don't know what I was thinking of.   Regards Richard Maher   E PS. For those many who have helped me in the past let me repeat a big J thank-you. And for those in the future, please don't be put off. But DON'TH try to tell me that some wanker is trying to "help" me when all they areF doing is covering their arse and control-freak their way through every public comment!   H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:0i4bpTak192d@eisner.encompasserve.org... C > In article <eefo9a$hm7$1@news-02.connect.com.au>, "Richard Maher" % <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:  > > J > > Mostly, I ask technical questions, based on technical facts. Is it too muchJ > > to ask for a technical response? If so then please don't respond to my posts  > > at all.  > I >    When you post incomplete info, and someone tells you what we need to I >    know to give you a correct answer, thn he is HELPING you, whether it  >    suits your ego or not.  >    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Sep 2006 12:32:30 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS ! Message-ID: <C$zBlsqyan7S@sinead>   H In article <ef1ld501urq@enews2.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com writes:+ > Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> wrote: ? >> for a hobbyist anything above and including alphastation 500 B >> is enough, but keep an eye on the gfx card, since many (most ?)$ >> aren't supported by VMS any more. > N > Avoid the AlphaStation 500's like the plague unless they come with plenty ofD > RAM.  Even now the RAM tends to cost more than a better computer. N > Personally based on the prices I see on eBay, I'd recommend getting either aJ > PWS -au Series workstation, or an XP1000 off of eBay, or getting a DS10L > from http://www.islandco.com/  > L > Not sure I agree with the the AlphaStation 500 or better machine, a nicelyN > equiped AlphaStation 200 4/233 would still make a nice starter system, and aD > second better box later will allow the OP to play with clustering.  K But if you can find a real DS10 (not DS10L), it's better to hold PCI cards. L Mine have an Elsa Synergy vido card, a sound card and 2 SCSI cards (a singleO port and a dual port with Ethernet). And you can put 3 SCSI disks inside (9, 18 7 or 36 Gb) plus CDROM and floppy. A nice workstation ...   L The Elsa card is a bit slow in 24 bits but fine in 16 bits. A Radeon 7500 is7 now a better choice but I've no problems with the Elsa.   	 Patrick    --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr              ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 DSNA/DTI/SDER (ex CENA)         / /   /     / /|  /|J Athis-Mons France              / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/              http://membres.lycos.fr/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 13:52:47 +0000 (UTC) / From: John Forkosh <forkosh@seeSig4address.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS , Message-ID: <ef3e7e$non$1@reader1.panix.com>  ) Paul Sture <paul.sture@hispeed.ch> wrote:  : John Forkosh wrote: A : > I have an AlphaStation 200 that came with a keyboard that has ? : > a completely mechanical click.  It's labelled d|i|g|i|t|a|l C : > on the front, but on the back it's an OEM'ed  Fujitsu keyboard, D : > Model FKB4700, P/N PCXAL-FA.  It has a ps/2 connector, and worksB : > transparently on a standard pc as well as on the AlphaStation. : >  : A : But the crucial question is: "does it have "delete word" on the  : numeric keypad?".   A Nope.  Typical pc numeric keypad and labelling.  The "PF4" column B has three keys (instead of four) labelled - (in the PF4 position),C a big + key (occupying the - and , positions), and the usual Enter. = The big + key functions as delete character, as you surmised. , Everything else works as expected using edt.@      Basically, as far as I can tell, it's exactly a standard pc? keyboard that's labelled d|i|g|i|t|a|l and distributed with the 6 AlphaStation 200.  But, hey!, it clicks all by itself. --  > John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 16:41:40 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> L Subject: What a game! (Was: Re: SSL cryptographic web browser vulnerability)1 Message-ID: <ef2rpo$dpq$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    David,  G Please don't discuss security issues in a public forum. If you do then, H before you know it, users will start asking questions and we'll actuallyJ have to start fixing things, and then they'll be releases and it all get's very messy.   K Just tell Hoff the problem and he'll decide who get's to hear about it on a  needs-to-know basis. Ok?  J "Wouldya tie it up with wy-er, just to keep the show on the road; hey True	 Blue.  ."    Regards Richard Maher   G PS. I never doubted the Eagles for a minute :-) Now *that's* character!   + <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message & news:eerhgl$5g9$1@south.jnrs.ja.net... >  > : > http://www.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de/securebrowser/ > > > provides details of a cryptographic vulnerability in the SSL implementation$ > of a large number of web browsers. > J > The attack allows someone to forge arbitrary certificates if the signingJ > certificate has a public exponent of 3. The forgery will not be detected byL > affected browsers which have root certificates with an RSA public exponentG > of 3 installed - there are a number of such certificates installed in  common > browsers.  > G > The recommendation is to upgrade to the latest unaffected versions of  > browsers.  > I > Versions of Mozilla/SeaMonkey and Netscape are vulnerable - hence it is  likely3 > that the version of Mozilla on VMS is vulnerable.  > ) > Details are also on the Mozilla site at  > @ > http://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/2006/mfsa2006-60.html >  >  >  >  > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.523 ************************