1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 27 Sep 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 531       Contents:B Re: 10gR2 for OpenVMS Itanium is now available via otn.oracle.com.> 10gR2 for OpenVMS Itanium is now available via otn.oracle.com.' Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin air ' Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin air ' Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin air ' Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin air : Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server?: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server?: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server?: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server?1 Re: Creating an ODS2 disk from a container file ? 1 Re: Creating an ODS2 disk from a container file ? 5 Re: Directory Utility with User-Specified Sort Order? 2 Re: HoffmanLabs Professional Services Availability2 Re: HoffmanLabs Professional Services Availability2 Re: HoffmanLabs Professional Services Availability2 Re: HoffmanLabs Professional Services Availability2 Re: HoffmanLabs Professional Services Availability2 Re: HoffmanLabs Professional Services Availability2 Re: HoffmanLabs Professional Services Availability HP could learn from Island Re: HP could learn from Island Re: HP could learn from Island! Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS % Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS % Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS % Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS % Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS % Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS % Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS % Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS % Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS  Re: meaningful queue commands & MicroVAX 3100 computers for hobbyists?2 Re: Should I upgrade from 7.3-2 and if so to what?2 Re: Should I upgrade from 7.3-2 and if so to what? Re: Some questions Re: TPU Reload command Re: TPU Reload command Re: TPU Reload command, Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 06:56:58 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>K Subject: Re: 10gR2 for OpenVMS Itanium is now available via otn.oracle.com. C Message-ID: <1159365418.249872.225380@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    See also9 http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=06/09/26/6022230    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:50:40 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>G Subject: 10gR2 for OpenVMS Itanium is now available via otn.oracle.com. 0 Message-ID: <12hl0dhqk7359b0@corp.supernews.com>  2 I just received this notice from someone at Oracle* I believe some of you would like to know !  F What I'm waiting for is the Alpha version but that should be soon now.   --   Syltrem L http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS information and help, en franais)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:37:18 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>0 Subject: Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin air* Message-ID: <4519c7b9@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Syltrem wrote:  O > On a sister's company server, OVMS 7.3-1, they reported that a .DIR file has   > gone away suddenly.   N    SET FILE/REMOVE?  It might well be possible to clear the directory bit and 9 DELETE it directly.  Or this could be a run-time problem.   I > They are currently doing a restore... so there's no chance to diagnose  
 > further.  M    The usual here is to set the disk aside, and restore onto another spindle.   # > Thanks for your thoughts on this.   O    I'd ECO the system to current, on the off chance that this is an error with   the file, I/O or caching.   ? > This company has lost work from yesterday evening now... $$$$   T    There are ways to avoid that.  BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK isn't the safest, however.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:21:50 GMT 0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>0 Subject: Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin air> Message-ID: <MPG.1f846f2ec3851b3498972b@news.bellatlantic.net>  C In article <4519c7b9@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, hoff-remove-this@hp.com   says...  > Syltrem wrote: > Q > > On a sister's company server, OVMS 7.3-1, they reported that a .DIR file has   > > gone away suddenly.  > P >    SET FILE/REMOVE?  It might well be possible to clear the directory bit and ; > DELETE it directly.  Or this could be a run-time problem.  > K > > They are currently doing a restore... so there's no chance to diagnose   > > further. > O >    The usual here is to set the disk aside, and restore onto another spindle.  > % > > Thanks for your thoughts on this.  > Q >    I'd ECO the system to current, on the off chance that this is an error with   > the file, I/O or caching.  > A > > This company has lost work from yesterday evening now... $$$$  > V >    There are ways to avoid that.  BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK isn't the safest, however.  E Does analyze/disk show anything?  (V7.3-2 and later has a very useful E analyze/disk/shadow which does a block-by-block compare of all shadow E set members, which would reveal any skew, but I'm 99% sure that isn't  available on V7.3-1.)   B Could there be a logical name involved?  Maybe the logged in users@ and the new users are actually looking at different disks due to# different logical name definitions!    --   John   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 09:21:31 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk0 Subject: Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin airB Message-ID: <1159374091.922487.181900@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  B What was running on the system?  I've seen similar problems on one= system a while ago, also running 7.3-1 if I remember rightly. D Were you running XFC, PerfectCache or any other cache?  PerfectDisk?   Steve    Syltrem wrote:
 > Hi group > L > On a sister's company server, OVMS 7.3-1, they reported that a .DIR file = has  > gone away suddenly. L > Files were opened in that directory at the time (as SHOW DEV/FIL could sh= ow) L > , but you could no longer do a DIRECTORY on those; the directory was gone. > L > The directory file could have been renamed or moved, but I could not veri= fyK > that until they decided to shutdown the system (don't ask me why, this is L > not a Windows system...). With a file open in a moved or renamed directoryJ > file, you can tell easily where it is now with SDA> SHOW PROCESS/CHANNEL	 > Anyway.  > G > What is even more strange is that apparently, someone who was already H > connected could see the files, a a new login could not. That means theG > RENAME theory is not possible, and the problem is even more bizzarre. L > Someone tried to do a BACKUP of the files, as he could still see them, but! > forgot the /IGNORE=3DINTERLOCK. J > He did it again with the /IGNORE=3DINTERLOCK but could not see the files
 > anymore. > & > Does that make any sense to someone?L > Could it be a problem with HBVS (host based volume shadowing) ? I doubt itL > very much though, we had HBVS on our server for years without any problem.L > The only difference with them is that mirror A is in one location and mir= ror L > B in another - 2 different SANs. The have a single machine - not clustere= d=2EI > If HBVS would fail, it seems to me that the problem would be of greater K > magnitude than just having a single .DIR file go away mysteriously, but I  > may be wrong on that.  > B > Also a  few weeks ago, someone reported that some files (2 or 3)D > disappeared. So that would be the 2nd occurrence of such a problemL > apparently. And I know the files have been created 2 days earlier; I have=  aA > log file with the COPY/LOG that says the file has been created.  > L > If someone saw this problem before, or have a possible explanation, I'd be > happy to hear it. L > Personally I don't see how a file can go away other than someone deleting=  or E > renaming it, and in the case of the .DIR, only a RENAME would work.  > H > They are currently doing a restore... so there's no chance to diagnose
 > further. > # > Thanks for your thoughts on this. ? > This company has lost work from yesterday evening now... $$$$  >  > --	 > Syltrem J > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS information and help, en fran= =E7ais)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:49:57 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin air0 Message-ID: <12hlee688fqgra2@corp.supernews.com>  ( <etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message < news:1159374091.922487.181900@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...B What was running on the system?  I've seen similar problems on one= system a while ago, also running 7.3-1 if I remember rightly. D Were you running XFC, PerfectCache or any other cache?  PerfectDisk?   They have XFC only.    Syltrem    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 02:22:48 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>C Subject: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server? C Message-ID: <1159348968.600540.303780@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote: Q >    The RC25 was the disk that triggered various updates around processing mount N > verification involving the system disk, particularly for its use on a [guessP > which box :-) ] system.  That common spindle really caused the underlying code > to get a good work-out.   D I remember RC25 on MVII running VMS and PDP11/73 running RSX11-M and: they used to cause all sorts of fun on a shared system :-(  F I had recovered from that memory until you mentioning the RC25 brought it all back.D I think more selective brain cell destruction with some good beer is required :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:39:58 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>C Subject: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server? * Message-ID: <4519c858@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:  I >    That capability precedes cluster technology, as those of us who have - >    pulled the wrong RP06 platter can atest.   P    The RC25 was the disk that triggered various updates around processing mount M verification involving the system disk, particularly for its use on a [guess  O which box :-) ] system.  That common spindle really caused the underlying code   to get a good work-out.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:13:22 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> C Subject: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server? J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-1CACF2.12132227092006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  C In article <1159348968.600540.303780@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "  "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> wrote:   > Hoff Hoffman wrote: N > >    The RC25 was the disk that triggered various updates around processing  > >    mountJ > > verification involving the system disk, particularly for its use on a 
 > > [guessN > > which box :-) ] system.  That common spindle really caused the underlying  > > code > > to get a good work-out.  > F > I remember RC25 on MVII running VMS and PDP11/73 running RSX11-M and< > they used to cause all sorts of fun on a shared system :-( > H > I had recovered from that memory until you mentioning the RC25 brought > it all back.F > I think more selective brain cell destruction with some good beer is > required :-)  D Never having had the obviously dubious pleasure of coming across an . RC25, what was so "special" about this beasty?   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 07:40:17 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) C Subject: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server? 3 Message-ID: <ANn5t7CmG8fi@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <paul.sture.nospam-90E1A8.12262127092006@mac.sture.homeip.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> writes:D > In article <1159287342.781971.139060@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, >  etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > H >> Yup, a satellite is a system without it's own local system disk in my >> book. >>   > H > I think that by strict definition a satellite can either have a local I > disk or  not. If it does, that disk's primary function is for page and  1 > swap file I/O, thus keeping it off the network.  > J > Naturally once you have one, it can be used for other things. I used to  > put my PC backups there.  F    I used them for my personal scratch space a bit until the page fileF    needed to consume the entire disk.  After all, I bought these disksG    for page space, why should I leave so much as one block unallocated?   E    Which was a problem when VMS 6.0 wanted to add SECURITY.SYS to the B    volume at first mount.  I had to get the satellites up without E    mapping thier local page files, re-initialize the disks, then put      back the page files.   G    Which happened the first time I upgraded a boot server to 6.0.  Then E    I went to all the satellites still running 5.5-2 and trimmed thier 6    local page files, an only slightly easier approach.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 07:32:59 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) : Subject: Re: Creating an ODS2 disk from a container file ?3 Message-ID: <t0dM1a8UCb7w@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4519F201.93319636@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:6 > Somethings require a lot of fighting to get working. > J > But thanks to your pointers, I downloaded the LD 6.3 driver (not the mstJ > recent, but didn't need to recompile it etc) and it worked right off theH > bat. I did an LD connect to that "ISO" file name and was able to mount > it without any problems.  G    By the time I saw you're request, I'd already seen your post that it     had worked.  F    But if LD hadn't worked, mounting the target disk foreign and usingH    COPY would certainly be simpler than writing the $QIO calls yourself.  H    The resulting disk would probably only be able to use the first 600MBD    of its storage, but it would be useable in a process to bootstrap(    the contents to a larger file system.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:29:00 +0200 4 From: Jur van der Burg <"vdburg at hotmail dot com">: Subject: Re: Creating an ODS2 disk from a container file ?5 Message-ID: <451a6e9b$0$4516$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>   ,  > ALP $ ld connect ALP$DKA100:[cdr]v732.img+  > %NONAME-I-NOMSG, Message number 0F84803B   A ldmsg.exe is not installed. I think you run a really old version, @ the latest version should work. Or you did connect the driver by$ hand and did not run ld$startup.com.   Jur (Lddriver author)  lddriver at digiater dot nl      Steven M. Schweda wrote:1 > From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com>  > # >>>       LD CONNECT file_or_device  > * >> That was my first reflex response also. >>N >> You must remember that LD is designed to take an ODS-2 file and use it as aK >> container disk; and we can't tell from what was posted whether jf's "raw 5 >> image of an ODS-2 CD" meets that criterion or not.  >>  >> The odds are that it doesn't. > ! >    You make me look optimistic.  > O >> He should use Nero or some Unix product with a rune-like name to burn the CD  >> image to a CD.  >  >    Why not cdrecord on VMS?  > N >> He can then do an image backup of it to a container disk created with LD ifI >> he really, really wants to get it on a VMS disk (of the logical kind).  > J >    Well, there were some rough edges, but it seemed to work for me (moreH > or less).  Starting with a VMS Alpha V7.3-2 installation CD-ROM in the > drive: > B >       1.  Make the CD (non-ISO-9660) image file from the CD-ROM. > , > ALP $ qreadcd cd1 ALP$DKA100:[cdr]v732.img >  cd1 (_ALP$DQA0:) mounted.? >  Error in read (QIOW) on cd1 (_ALP$DQA0:).  sts = %x0000008c. ' >  %SYSTEM-F-DRVERR, fatal drive error. % > %SYSTEM-F-DRVERR, fatal drive error  > I >       2.  Pretend that that was satisfactory.  LD CONNECT to create the 1 > LD device and associate it with the image file.  > + > ALP $ ld connect ALP$DKA100:[cdr]v732.img * > %NONAME-I-NOMSG, Message number 0F84803B > < >       3.  Figure out what that message was supposed to be. >  > ALP $ sysmsg %x0F84803B ' >    (SYS$COMMON:[SYSMSG]LD$MSG.EXE;1:) % > %LD-I-UNIT, Allocated device is !AZ  > J >       4.  As that failed miserably, try to guess which LD device we just > made.  >  > ALP $ show device ld > R > Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans MntR >  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count Cnt0 > ALP$LDA0:               Online               0R > ALP$LDA1:               Mounted              0  ODS5_ALP_1       14756     1   10 > ALP$LDA2:               Online               0 > 7 >       5.  Figure that it must be LDA2, so mount that.  > ( > ALP $ mount /noass /over = ident LDA2:R > %MOUNT-W-INCONSIZE, inconsistent number of blocks reported, some data may not be
 >  accessible 3 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, ALPHA0732 mounted on _ALP$LDA2:  > 2 >       6.  Feign satisfaction.  See what's there. > 0 > ALP $ dir /date /prot /size ALP$LDA2:[KITS...] >  > Directory ALP$LDA2:[KITS]  > H > CDSA_KIT.DIR;1             1  31-OCT-2003 14:31:30.14  (RWE,RWE,RE,RE)% > DECNET_PHASE_IV_ALPHA0732_KIT.DIR;1 H >                            1  31-OCT-2003 14:30:51.43  (RWE,RWE,RE,RE) > [...]  >   >       7.  What could go wrong? > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 5 >    Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-org 6 >    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818 >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:05:57 GMT 0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>> Subject: Re: Directory Utility with User-Specified Sort Order?> Message-ID: <MPG.1f846b6cf5ad5b5998972a@news.bellatlantic.net>  G In article <efbka0$tba$00$1@news.t-online.com>, no.spam@plea.se says...  > Craig Dedo wrote: C > > Is there any kind of shareware or freeware utility that has the E > > functionality of the DCL DIRECTORY command but allows the user to J > > specify the order in which the file listings are sorted?  I am lookingK > > for a sort specification that works somewhat like the /O (Order) option " > > in the MS Windows DIR command. > > J > > I looked in the DCL Dictionary and it specifically says that the filesI > If you just want to sort the output of the DIRECTORY command, you might F > have a look at DIRSORT -- the one I use is a DCL procedure posted toE > INFO-VAX some years ago by Hein van den Heuvel; as a DCL procedure, H > it is easy to modify if it doesn't do what you want.  There is also a 	 > DIRSORT C > utility on the Freeware CDs under the name LWW-DIRSORT, which may @ > or may not be the same, but presumably has a similar function. >  > Bill Bennett > K > > are always sorted alphabetically by file name, with the highest version  > > listed first.  > > D > > I looked in the OpenVMS FAQ from September 2005 and did not find& > > anything like what I have in mind. > > ' > > We are running OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-2.  > > D > > One of our software developers would like to list the files in aF > > directory in a user-specified order, e.g., by size, creation date, > > modification date, etc.  > > H > > If I have to write my own utility, how do I get access to all of theI > > file attribute information that the DCL DIRECTORY command lists?  Are J > > there Run Time Library (LIB$) or System Service (SYS$) procedures thatE > > will retrieve this information for me?  Or, do I have to read the K > > records of *.DIR files?  If the latter, where do I find the information H > > on the layout and structure of *.DIR file records?  Or, do I have toI > > muck around with the File Attribute Blocks (FAB) and Record Attribute ( > > Blocks (RAB) of low-level RMS calls? > > ! > > Craig T. Dedo, VMs Consultant   C If you have GNV installed (Gnu utilities) and don't mind Unix-style C directory listings, ls will do this.  At least, "-lrt" (by creation , date oldest first) works on my V7.3-1 Alpha.  B BTW, thanks to a recent hint by someone here that it works on mostB unix-based FTP servers.  "dir -rlt" is dead useful for finding newI files on ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches.  I'm on the patch notification  C mailing list, but sometimes I don't get notified (or maybe my spam  ; filter is eating them, though I haven't noticed any there.)      --   John   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 07:06:36 +01002 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>; Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs Professional Services Availability ? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-t7Lzuv7CDC1O@dave2_os2.home.ours>   = On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:31:34 UTC, dooleys@snowy.net.au wrote:    >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote: T > > Effective 23-Oct-2006, I expect to be directly available for OpenVMS and related/ > > professional services, support and related.  > > Q > > Additional general information is available at <http://www.hoffmanlabs.org/>, M > > and I would ask that inquiries be referred to/via the contact information : > > available over there, and not to the HP email address. > > - > > And yes, HP and I are "parting amicably".  > > B > > Now if y'all will excuse me, I have some (more) writing to do.> > You havn't done this just to get away from Richard have you? > :) > Phil  F I have to confess to having a similar thought : 'now look what you've  gone and done ' :-)   . All the best in the new 'lebensabschnitt' Hoff   --   Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 01:32:22 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>; Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs Professional Services Availability C Message-ID: <1159345941.947010.214090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   D Thank you for the invaluable contributions to the VMS and I hope youC will continue to find the time to contribute in the many places you 
 provide help.   E The departure of experianced people is always a reason for concern. I B think what is produced by VMS Engineering in the next year will be? watched carefully for signs that the qualities for which VMS is F justifiably famous are still present. A hardware release (V8.3-1H1) is& scheduled and there will be bug fixes.  @ Other key products such as TCPIP are also a concern as these are required to make use of VMS.  . We live in interesting times, unfortunally :-(   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:47:34 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>; Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs Professional Services Availability * Message-ID: <4519ca22@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Dave Froble wrote:    J > What about the FAQ and ATW?  Are these officially supported by HP, or a I > contribution to the user community by a few who care enough to do such?   O    I expect to take the FAQ along, as it was originally an outside effort that  J was adopted, and it's always been a non-corporate spare-time effort.  The ; downside is I'll probably have to port the sources (again).   8    ATW has been off-line for years now for new activity.  J > Wishing you the best Steve.  Thanks for the memories.  Not done though, D > there's a real good chance that you'll be hearing from me about a > > problem thats been hanging around my neck for a dozen years.      Thanks.  And, um, ok.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:52:12 -0400 , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>; Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs Professional Services Availability * Message-ID: <4519cb37@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   William Webb wrote:   K > If we keep buyin' it and paying for the maintenance, they'll keep makin'  3 > it.  Too much coin involved to just shut it down.   O    I'm certainly hoping to assist folks with services and support for OpenVMS,  Q and training.  And I expect to continue contributing here and via a blog, and at   various meetings.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:57:09 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG; Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs Professional Services Availability 0 Message-ID: <00A5C58A.9D4C8A6C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  w In article <4519fc80$0$19727$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@bruden.com> writes:  >  >  > 5 >"Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message 4 >news:94GdnYxnAqdIIoTYnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@libcom.com..." >> William.W.Webb@gmail.com wrote: >> > JF Mezei wrote: >> >> Hoff Hoffman wrote: K >> >>> Effective 23-Oct-2006, I expect to be directly available for OpenVMS  >and related2 >> >>> professional services, support and related.M >> >> Good luck on your new endeavours.  I suspect that you won't have a hard K >> >> time finding customers. And I really hope you continue to participate K >> >> here. You have certaintly behaved here in a most reespectable way and @ >> >> your contributions and patience has been most appreciated. >> >> 0 >> >>> And yes, HP and I are "parting amicably".! >> >> Yeah... they all say that !  >> >>  >> >> M >> >> What is a shame is that those leaving VMS engineering are not all going I >> >> to the same place. That way, you could recreate VMS engineering. By 4 >> >> splitting to various places it becomes harder. >> >> I >> >> Your departure leaves questions about the future of VMS, especially + >> >> since you are not the first to leave.  >> >E >> > At the risk of speaking frankly, jf, that statement is downright 
 >> > idiotic.  >>+ >> Well it is JF, what else did you expect?  >> >> > VMS <> Hoff,  >> > VMS <> Guy, >> > VMS <> Hoff + Guy.  >> >J >> > What it *may* mean is that there may be some decrease in the official< >> > participation by persons employed by HP in comp.os.vms. >> >I >> > Or not, should others who as of now don't participate "step into the J >> > breach", or others who do participate increase their rate of posting. >> >> Ok, here's how it works.  >>H >> There a person is, happily working for a company.  He/She thinks theyK >> know where they stand with respect to the job.  However, companies don't K >> always have the same perspective on the job as the person doing the job. I >>   Sometimes it's an employee having an attitude about issues they have K >> no right to have an attitude about.  Sometimes it's the employer causing  >> outrage in the employee.  >>" >> Small outrage, maybe accept it. >>: >> Medium outrage, possibly seek new employment elsewhere. >>J >> Major outrage, the employee not only leaves, but vows to never work for >> a big company again.  >  >Good analysis.....  > 5 >In my opinion, the biggest lost to VMS over the past 0 >few months was the departure of Christian Moser7 >(aka CMOS). Christian was responsible for the majority ; >of performance enhancements showed up in VMS in the latest  >resleases.   3 Christian left.  How did I miss this announcement.     --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:07:56 +0300 ; From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@bruden.com> ; Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs Professional Services Availability 9 Message-ID: <451a5ca6$0$19738$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>   , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A5C58A.9D4C8A6C@SendSpamHere.ORG...G > In article <4519fc80$0$19727$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Guy Peleg" 1 <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@bruden.com> writes:  > >  > >  > > 7 > >"Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message 6 > >news:94GdnYxnAqdIIoTYnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@libcom.com...$ > >> William.W.Webb@gmail.com wrote: > >> > JF Mezei wrote: > >> >> Hoff Hoffman wrote: E > >> >>> Effective 23-Oct-2006, I expect to be directly available for  OpenVMS  > >and related4 > >> >>> professional services, support and related.J > >> >> Good luck on your new endeavours.  I suspect that you won't have a hardA > >> >> time finding customers. And I really hope you continue to  participate I > >> >> here. You have certaintly behaved here in a most reespectable way  and B > >> >> your contributions and patience has been most appreciated. > >> >> 2 > >> >>> And yes, HP and I are "parting amicably".# > >> >> Yeah... they all say that !  > >> >>  > >> >> I > >> >> What is a shame is that those leaving VMS engineering are not all  going K > >> >> to the same place. That way, you could recreate VMS engineering. By 6 > >> >> splitting to various places it becomes harder. > >> >> K > >> >> Your departure leaves questions about the future of VMS, especially - > >> >> since you are not the first to leave.  > >> >G > >> > At the risk of speaking frankly, jf, that statement is downright  > >> > idiotic.  > >>- > >> Well it is JF, what else did you expect?  > >> > >> > VMS <> Hoff,  > >> > VMS <> Guy, > >> > VMS <> Hoff + Guy.  > >> >L > >> > What it *may* mean is that there may be some decrease in the official> > >> > participation by persons employed by HP in comp.os.vms. > >> >K > >> > Or not, should others who as of now don't participate "step into the L > >> > breach", or others who do participate increase their rate of posting. > >> > >> Ok, here's how it works.  > >>J > >> There a person is, happily working for a company.  He/She thinks theyG > >> know where they stand with respect to the job.  However, companies  don't H > >> always have the same perspective on the job as the person doing the job.K > >>   Sometimes it's an employee having an attitude about issues they have E > >> no right to have an attitude about.  Sometimes it's the employer  causing  > >> outrage in the employee.  > >>$ > >> Small outrage, maybe accept it. > >>< > >> Medium outrage, possibly seek new employment elsewhere. > >>L > >> Major outrage, the employee not only leaves, but vows to never work for > >> a big company again.  > >  > >Good analysis.....  > > 7 > >In my opinion, the biggest lost to VMS over the past 2 > >few months was the departure of Christian Moser9 > >(aka CMOS). Christian was responsible for the majority = > >of performance enhancements showed up in VMS in the latest 
 > >resleases.  > 4 > Christian left.  How did I miss this announcement.  @ There was no official announcement...his last day was July 11th.  : Note that there were no announcements for others who left,A out of respect to their privacy I will not mention further names. B (I'm a friend of Christian and know he does not mind me mentioning! his departure in the news group).    >  > --  2 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > 6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"       --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:47:00 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ; Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs Professional Services Availability 9 Message-ID: <ULCdndN1f7dAEYfYnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@libcom.com>    William Webb wrote:  >  > 1 > On 9/26/06, *Dave Froble* <davef@tsoft-inc.com  & > <mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com>> wrote: > G >     William.W.Webb@gmail.com <mailto:William.W.Webb@gmail.com> wrote:  >      > JF Mezei wrote: >      >> Hoff Hoffman wrote: G >      >>> Effective 23-Oct-2006, I expect to be directly available for  >     OpenVMS and related 6 >      >>> professional services, support and related.J >      >> Good luck on your new endeavours.  I suspect that you won't have >     a hardC >      >> time finding customers. And I really hope you continue to  >     participate G >      >> here. You have certaintly behaved here in a most reespectable 
 >     way and D >      >> your contributions and patience has been most appreciated.	 >      >> 4 >      >>> And yes, HP and I are "parting amicably".% >      >> Yeah... they all say that ! 	 >      >> 	 >      >> G >      >> What is a shame is that those leaving VMS engineering are not  >     all going M >      >> to the same place. That way, you could recreate VMS engineering. By 8 >      >> splitting to various places it becomes harder.	 >      >> M >      >> Your departure leaves questions about the future of VMS, especially / >      >> since you are not the first to leave.  >      >I >      > At the risk of speaking frankly, jf, that statement is downright  >      > idiotic.  > . >     Well it is JF, what else did you expect? >  >      > VMS <> Hoff,  >      > VMS <> Guy, >      > VMS <> Hoff + Guy.  >      >E >      > What it *may* mean is that there may be some decrease in the  >     official@ >      > participation by persons employed by HP in comp.os.vms. >      >M >      > Or not, should others who as of now don't participate "step into the E >      > breach", or others who do participate increase their rate of  >     posting. >  >     Ok, here's how it works. > K >     There a person is, happily working for a company.  He/She thinks they N >     know where they stand with respect to the job.  However, companies don'tI >     always have the same perspective on the job as the person doing the 
 >     job.L >       Sometimes it's an employee having an attitude about issues they haveN >     no right to have an attitude about.  Sometimes it's the employer causing >     outrage in the employee. > % >     Small outrage, maybe accept it.  > = >     Medium outrage, possibly seek new employment elsewhere.  > M >     Major outrage, the employee not only leaves, but vows to never work for  >     a big company again. > L >     Been there, done #3.  It does take some years to gain some perspective= >     on things.  It takes some time to get over the outrage.  > L >     Personally, I don't think too many would leave VMS Engineering as longG >     as they thought it was what they wanted to do.  Just not too many I >     openings for such work.  That's just my thinking, and possibly some K >     people may get tired of something and just want to do something else. L >     But that's not the case with either Steve or Guy.  They're sticking to& >     the VMS world, just not with HP. > M >     Hey, I asked what stunk when Guy left.  Didn't really expect him to air " >     the dirty laundry in public. > J >     Something is going on, possibly something we've worried about in theM >     past.  Don't know.  But don't ask this old rascal to believe everything K >     is just peachy keen.  VMS as we've known it is in trouble.  Maybe not ; >     short term trouble, but definitely long term trouble.  > M >     What about the FAQ and ATW?  Are these officially supported by HP, or a M >     contribution to the user community by a few who care enough to do such?  > M >     Wishing you the best Steve.  Thanks for the memories.  Not done though, G >     there's a real good chance that you'll be hearing from me about a B >     problem thats been hanging around my neck for a dozen years. >  >     --: >     David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450D >     Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com" >     <mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com> >     DFE Ultralights, Inc.  >     170 Grimplin Road  >     Vanderbilt, PA  15486  >  >  > Dave,  > : > I never said that everything was "peachy keen" with VMS.@ > Nor did I say that I'd expect you to believe it had I said it. > ) >  Anybody with half a brain knows that.   > F > That's why I keep writing letters to management every so often, and G > occasionally I vent to people inside HP that I'm good enough friends  H > with to where my vents are welcome and they get forwarded up the food  > chain. > A > But it's not "End Of VMS As We Know It -- Film At 11!", either.  > N > If we keep buyin' it and paying for the maintenance, they'll keep makin' it.. > Too much coin involved to just shut it down.  A A 'cash cow' can and will be milked for all it's worth.  But not   necessarily fed.  E  From some recent posts, it appears that departures announced in the  H newsgroup are like the tip of an iceburg.  Re, the mention of Christian D Moser, who was alledged to be behind most of the recent performance G enhancements to VMS.  And the mention of others who's privacy is being  ( respected.  How many?  Will any survive?  H The end, no, you'll still be able to throw money at HP for VMS V8.3 ten G years from now.  The 'coin involved' is whatever HP can take from you,  7 not what they'll do to continue to improve the product.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 07:45:50 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: HP could learn from Island , Message-ID: <451A6440.59127A70@teksavvy.com>  B disclaimer: I got a free DS10L (but paid for anciliary cards etc).    D It was quite a pleasure to deal with Island Computers. With HP, evenA with the exact part numbers (where you have to spend hours though F SOC/web sites to find), chances are that you cannot find someone at HPE who is willinG/able to find it and order it for you. With Island, you D just need to say "I need a SCSI card for my DS10L" and he'll respond7 with an email with whatever he has that fits that need.   H You know, if HP were to have some employees dedicated to worldwide salesE of VMS and Alpha items, things would be so much easier for customers. H Right now, I think that getting anything VMS related from HP is probably& much harder if you are a new customer.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 04:52:30 -0700, From: "Cluster-Karl" <karl.rohwedder@gmx.de>' Subject: Re: HP could learn from Island C Message-ID: <1159357950.591421.297990@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   > I once ordered a replacement powersupply for my DS10 on friday> afternoon (from Germany), it arrived monday morning via FedEx.  C I asked a local reseller for a quote for the same power supply just @ before ordering it from Island, the quote arrived on tuesday....  
 regards Kalle    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 08:30:44 -0400 < From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>' Subject: Re: HP could learn from Island 0 Message-ID: <12hkrnp4ra5lo2f@news.supernews.com>   One does try... (blushing)  ;0)      DT   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   7 "Cluster-Karl" <karl.rohwedder@gmx.de> wrote in message = news:1159357950.591421.297990@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... @ > I once ordered a replacement powersupply for my DS10 on friday@ > afternoon (from Germany), it arrived monday morning via FedEx. > E > I asked a local reseller for a quote for the same power supply just B > before ordering it from Island, the quote arrived on tuesday.... >  > regards Kalle  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 05:50:39 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS, Message-ID: <451A4949.23EE42A0@teksavvy.com>  % And they said it couldn't be done :-)    EUREKA !!!!   ; DO TRY THIS AT HOME ! (this is for hobbyists, after all :-)   = lets assume the new node will be called BIKE2   (DS10L alpha) 8 lets assume the VAX node is called VELO 		(VAX 4000-600)  F Step 1:  friend deposits an image of ODS2  Alpha-VMS install disk onto	 my system   M Step 2:  use the LD driver (from freeware) to map that file to a virtual disk   H Step 3:  BACKUP/IMAGE/INIT from the LDAx: device to a spare disk on your system (lets call it $DISK5:)   C Step 4:  MOUNT the $DISK5, perform an ANA/DISK/REPAIR. (you may get % messages of wrongly allocated blocks)   3 Step 5:  Fix ALPHA's SYSGEN parameters from the VAX   
 	MC SYSGEN( 	USE $DISK5:[SYS0.SYSEXE]ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR 	SET VAXCLUSTER 2  	SET SCSSYSTEMID xxxx  	SET SCSNODE "YYYYYY"  	SET MSCP_LOAD 2+ 	WRITE  $DISK5:[SYS0.SYSEXE]ALPHAVMSSYS.PAR   F (the original install CD doesn't have clustering enabled, but you needF this enabled for the alpha to access the Alpha-VMS boot disk served by the VAX.    $ Step 6:  @SYS$MANAGER:CLUSTER_CONFIG 	 : 	Just assume you are adding a VAX satellite with 0 votes,  	Tell it to use LANCP E 	tell it to use some unused VAX system root (you can delete it later) J 	Give it the right SCSNODE and SCSSYSTEMID values (or decnet node numbers)     Step 7:  Fix LANCP  
 		MC LANCPQ 		DEFINE NODE BIKE2	/FILE=APB.EXE /ROOT=$DISK5:<SYS0.> /BOOT_TYPE=ALPHA_SATELLITE . 		SET NODE BIKE2/PERM (makes the above active)   		LANCP> list node bike2  # 		Node Listing, permanent database:    		BIKE2 (08-00-2B-87-3D-64):" 		  MOP DLL:  Load file:   APB.EXE) 		            Load root:   $DISK5:<SYS0.> * 		            Boot type:   Alpha satellite  B 		(note: in my case, instead of $DISK5, I used actual device name)    C Step 8:  Copy APB.EXE from $DISk5:[VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE] to your VAX's  [VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE] G 		(LANCP seems to insist it be in the SYS$SYSTEM of the node responding  to the MOP request)     ! Step 9: from the alpha >>> B EWA0   F Voila ! You get APB which then points to that $DISk5 Alpha system diskD (the install disk) where you tweaked the sysgen parameters to enableC clustering. During the boot, you get warning messages about certain H SYSGEN parameters no longer being used (probably because you use the VAXC version of SYSGEN to update the parameter file), and then the Alpha F joins the cluster  and you get the automatic system installation menu.D (I am up to getting my hobbyst licences now, I didn't expect this to work so quickly !         / View of Cluster from system ID 1031  node: VELO 3                                27-SEP-2006 05:46:57 @ +----------------------------------------------------+---------+@ |                       SYSTEMS                      | MEMBERS |@ +--------+--------------------------------+----------+---------+@ |  NODE  |             HW_TYPE            | SOFTWARE |  STATUS |@ +--------+--------------------------------+----------+---------+@ | VELO   | VAX 4000-600A                  | VMS V7.2 | MEMBER  |@ | DISK45 | RF72                           | RFX V256 |         |@ | TAPE   | TF85                           | TFX V002 |         |@ | WHEEL  | VAX 4000-200                   | VMS V7.2 | MEMBER  |@ | DISK44 | RF73                           | RFX T392 |         |@ | DISK41 | RF73                           | RFX T324 |         |@ | DISK42 | RF73                           | RFX T392 |         |@ | DISK43 | RF73                           | RFX T392 |         |@ | DISK1  | RF36                           | RFX V427 |         |@ | BIKE   | VAXstation 3100/SPX            | VMS V7.2 | MEMBER  |@ | BIKE2  | AlphaServer DS10L 466 MHz      | VMS V8.2 | MEMBER  |@ +--------+--------------------------------+----------+---------+  H (and I am only at the point where it asks if I have my licences ready in the VMS install !)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 06:04:06 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS, Message-ID: <451A4C6E.39EF95E4@teksavvy.com>  E Oh, BTW, for those who recently purchased a DS10L from Island, if you F might need to download a 600 meg file containing you-know-what, get in* touch with me jfmezei at vaxination dot ca  @ (I don't have the SPL yet though, seems this is a harder task !)  D And a big thank you to the unnamed person who volunteered to give me that big file !    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 03:13:29 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>. Subject: Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMSC Message-ID: <1159352009.369503.213950@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   E Cross architecture booting is briefly mentioned in the cluster manual G http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/6318/6318pro_021.html#index_x_756   , Yours is the first detailed list I have seen   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 06:18:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS, Message-ID: <451A4FD5.83F4D2C5@teksavvy.com>  3 Oh one thing I forgot and which you may wish to do.   F When updating the SYSGEN parameters for the ALPHA's installation disk,I you may wish to set ALLOCLASS as well so that its disk can be served too.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 06:43:13 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS, Message-ID: <451A5597.896024DE@teksavvy.com>   Ian Miller wrote:  > G > Cross architecture booting is briefly mentioned in the cluster manual I > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/6318/6318pro_021.html#index_x_756   H Actuallly, as of 7.2, CLUSTER_CONFIG on VAX doesn't seem to give one theH option to configure an ALPHA satellite. But there is code in the command! procedure that has "ALPHA" in it.   5 LANCP supports ALPHA_SATELLITE booting on VAX though.   G Obviously, to run the PCSI installation scripts for ALPHA-VMS, you need G to run those on an ALPHA. But I don't see any reason why it couldn't be ! on a target disk served by a VAX.     C I've loaded my VMS licence and now the install is progressing along H nicely. Reading from an RF drive on a VAX and writing to an IDE drive on
 the alpha.  H Man, those DS10L are hot ! (in both senses of the word). Within a coupleC of minutes, the temperature sensor went from 22 to 40 and the air C coming out the back is hot. Not much volume though. (those fans are 
 really tiny).   G Now, I'll have to figure out a way to remove the "compaq" logo from the B nameplate (probably acetone would do it). Interestingly, the chipsF inside are still "Digital". Neat metallic top surface to the chips too& (instead of the usualy black plastic).   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:05:29 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) . Subject: Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS[ Message-ID: <rdeininger-2709060705310001@dialup-4.233.149.229.dial1.manchester1.level3.net>   5 In article <451A5597.896024DE@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    ...   I >Man, those DS10L are hot ! (in both senses of the word). Within a couple D >of minutes, the temperature sensor went from 22 to 40 and the airD >coming out the back is hot. Not much volume though. (those fans are >really tiny).  C You should get an rx1620.  Even hotter!!  And more volume too.  :-)   I (Seriously, I do NOT recommend the rx1620 for any space shared with human  people.)  H >Now, I'll have to figure out a way to remove the "compaq" logo from the >nameplate    ; Do you want some "HP" logo stickers to re-brand the system?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 07:39:06 -0400 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> . Subject: Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMSH Message-ID: <8660a3a10609270439n788e0e7q9cf82c718cfbdb06@mail.gmail.com>  ) ------=_Part_23896_11657245.1159357146354 ; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   : On 9/27/06, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: >  > Ian Miller wrote:  > > I > > Cross architecture booting is briefly mentioned in the cluster manual K > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/6318/6318pro_021.html#index_x_756  > J > Actuallly, as of 7.2, CLUSTER_CONFIG on VAX doesn't seem to give one theJ > option to configure an ALPHA satellite. But there is code in the command# > procedure that has "ALPHA" in it.  > 7 > LANCP supports ALPHA_SATELLITE booting on VAX though.  > I > Obviously, to run the PCSI installation scripts for ALPHA-VMS, you need I > to run those on an ALPHA. But I don't see any reason why it couldn't be # > on a target disk served by a VAX.  >  > E > I've loaded my VMS licence and now the install is progressing along J > nicely. Reading from an RF drive on a VAX and writing to an IDE drive on > the alpha. > J > Man, those DS10L are hot ! (in both senses of the word). Within a coupleI > of minutes, the temperature sensor went from 22=B0 to 40=B0 and the air E > coming out the back is hot. Not much volume though. (those fans are  > really tiny).  > I > Now, I'll have to figure out a way to remove the "compaq" logo from the D > nameplate (probably acetone would do it). Interestingly, the chipsH > inside are still "Digital". Neat metallic top surface to the chips too( > (instead of the usualy black plastic). >   H I never said it couldn't be done; I just said that there might be issuesK with trying to use a raw image file from heaven-knows-what-operating-system  as a container file with LD.  : Congratulations on your successful experiment, by the way.  G And, having just replaced a DS10L bezel, I can tell you that the little D nameplate that has the manufacturer's name and model number on it isL removable - it's not glued on, it's held in place with two plastic pins tha= t L protrude from the back of the nameplate - I suspect that it's intended to b= e I pushed out from the back but if you're careful you can probably wiggle it K loose from the front with a small flat-blade screwdriver.  Taking the bezel H off is a real pain, though, you've got to not only remove screws that goL through the front of the metal cabinet-- the screws that hold the front FAN= S K on also attach to the bezel so you've got to take those off as well. (those  wascally engineers!)  K As for using acetone to remove the C-word from it, I expect that the use of J acetone would work but would also mar the pebbled finish on the nameplate.! Plese don't smoke while doing so.   E I have a cluster of three nodes in my room here; my housemate has one K Personal Workstation located in a different room that we may or may not add  to the cluster.   I We've decided that if we start pulling fiber throughout the house, it's a F sign that we've gone over the edge and need to seek professional help.  I This nameplate thing you're talking about really worries me.  Define your  limit, okay?   : - )    WWWebb --=20  Ajilon Consulting  Site resident at Quest Diagnostics = first.x.last@f$edit(contents of previous line,"COMPRESS").com   ) ------=_Part_23896_11657245.1159357146354 + Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   L <br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 9/27/06, <b class=3D"gmail_send=L ername">JF Mezei</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com">jf=L mezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=L quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt = 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> L Ian Miller wrote:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Cross architecture booting is briefly men=L tioned in the cluster manual<br>&gt; <a href=3D"http://h71000.www7.hp.com/d=L oc/82FINAL/6318/6318pro_021.html#index_x_756">http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc=* /82FINAL/6318/6318pro_021.html#index_x_756L </a><br><br>Actuallly, as of 7.2, CLUSTER_CONFIG on VAX doesn't seem to giv=L e one the<br>option to configure an ALPHA satellite. But there is code in t=L he command<br>procedure that has &quot;ALPHA&quot; in it.<br><br>LANCP supp=+ orts ALPHA_SATELLITE booting on VAX though. L <br><br>Obviously, to run the PCSI installation scripts for ALPHA-VMS, you =L need<br>to run those on an ALPHA. But I don't see any reason why it couldn'=L t be<br>on a target disk served by a VAX.<br><br><br>I've loaded my VMS lic=- ence and now the install is progressing along L <br>nicely. Reading from an RF drive on a VAX and writing to an IDE drive o=L n<br>the alpha.<br><br>Man, those DS10L are hot ! (in both senses of the wo=L rd). Within a couple<br>of minutes, the temperature sensor went from 22=B0 = to 40=B0 and the airL <br>coming out the back is hot. Not much volume though. (those fans are<br>=L really tiny).<br><br>Now, I'll have to figure out a way to remove the &quot=L ;compaq&quot; logo from the<br>nameplate (probably acetone would do it). In= terestingly, the chipsL <br>inside are still &quot;Digital&quot;. Neat metallic top surface to the =L chips too<br>(instead of the usualy black plastic).<br></blockquote></div><=L br>I never said it couldn't be done; I just said that there might be issues=L  with trying to use a raw image file from heaven-knows-what-operating-syste=' m as a container file with LD.&nbsp;=20 L <br><br>Congratulations on your successful experiment, by the way.<br><br>A=L nd, having just replaced a DS10L bezel, I can tell you that the little name=L plate that has the manufacturer's name and model number on it is removable =L - it's not glued on, it's held in place with two plastic pins that protrude=L  from the back of the nameplate - I suspect that it's intended to be pushed=L  out from the back but if you're careful you can probably wiggle it loose f=L rom the front with a small flat-blade screwdriver.&nbsp; Taking the bezel o=L ff is a real pain, though, you've got to not only remove screws that go thr=L ough the front of the metal cabinet-- the screws that hold the front FANS o=L n also attach to the bezel so you've got to take those off as well. (those = wascally engineers!)L <br><br>As for using acetone to remove the C-word from it, I expect that th=L e use of acetone would work but would also mar the pebbled finish on the na=L meplate. Plese don't smoke while doing so.<br><br>I have a cluster of three=L  nodes in my room here; my housemate has one Personal Workstation located i== n a different room that we may or may not add to the cluster. L <br><br>We've decided that if we start pulling fiber throughout the house, =L it's a sign that we've gone over the edge and need to seek professional hel=L p.<br><br>This nameplate thing you're talking about really worries me.&nbsp= ; Define your limit, okay?L <br><br>: - )<br><br>WWWebb<br clear=3D"all">-- <br>Ajilon Consulting<br>Si=L te resident at <br>Quest Diagnostics<br>first.x.last@f$edit(contents of pre=$ vious line,&quot;COMPRESS&quot;).com  + ------=_Part_23896_11657245.1159357146354--    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:34:50 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> . Subject: Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMSJ Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-151EA1.14345027092006@mac.sture.homeip.net>   In article  = <8660a3a10609270439n788e0e7q9cf82c718cfbdb06@mail.gmail.com>, 1  "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> wrote:     K > We've decided that if we start pulling fiber throughout the house, it's a H > sign that we've gone over the edge and need to seek professional help.  B If the chair I am sitting in didn't have arms on it, I would have & literally been ROFL with that comment.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:05:39 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> . Subject: Re: Installing Alpha-VMS from VAX-VMS9 Message-ID: <ULCdndJ1f7emDIfYnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Robert Deininger wrote: 7 > In article <451A5597.896024DE@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  >  > ...  > K >> Man, those DS10L are hot ! (in both senses of the word). Within a couple F >> of minutes, the temperature sensor went from 22 to 40 and the airF >> coming out the back is hot. Not much volume though. (those fans are >> really tiny). > E > You should get an rx1620.  Even hotter!!  And more volume too.  :-)  > K > (Seriously, I do NOT recommend the rx1620 for any space shared with human 
 > people.) > J >> Now, I'll have to figure out a way to remove the "compaq" logo from the
 >> nameplate   > = > Do you want some "HP" logo stickers to re-brand the system?   D No, but if you could come up with some DEC or Digital stickers, I'd 0 appreciate some for the DS10L I've just ordered.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 00:45:52 -0700, From: "Cluster-Karl" <karl.rohwedder@gmx.de>& Subject: Re: meaningful queue commandsB Message-ID: <1159343152.496974.315440@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>  ' Perhaps the following suits your needs:   A SAP01_Rohwedder. init/que/batch/star/auto=(sap01::,sap23::) kalle  SAP01_Rohwedder. shb kalle# Batch queue KALLE, idle, on SAP01:: # SAP01_Rohwedder. stop/que/nex kalle  SAP01_Rohwedder. shb kalle: Batch queue KALLE, stopped, autostart inactive, on SAP01::A SAP01_Rohwedder. init/que/batch/star/auto=(sap23::,sap01::) kalle  SAP01_Rohwedder. shb kalle# Batch queue KALLE, idle, on SAP23::     
 regards Kalle    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 09:54:26 -0700" From: "Tad" <twinters@netzero.net>/ Subject: MicroVAX 3100 computers for hobbyists? A Message-ID: <1159376066.618418.41710@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    See this URL5 http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/sys/212924809.html D for a system for an OpenVMS hobbyist or maybe as a spare for someoneG running on a similar system.  The classified will be removed in a week, @ but more systems will be appearing for probably another 6 weeks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 07:46:00 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> ; Subject: Re: Should I upgrade from 7.3-2 and if so to what? < Message-ID: <451a62a7$0$24212$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  M "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>  / wrote in message news:ef5ikg$700$1@online.de... H > My hobbyist cluster now has 2 VAXes at 7.3 and an ALPHA at 7.3-2.  I'mI > considering upgrading from 7.3-2 to 8.x.  What is the recommended value J > of x?  I believe 8.2 and 8.3 are out now.  My intuition would be to waitB > for 8.3-1.  What do people here think?  Can I upgrade from 7.3-2I > directly to 8.x for any value of x?  What is the highest value of x for < > which 7.3 (VAX) is supported as being in the same cluster? > I > Since I don't have any Itanium systems yet, anything related to Itanium 0 > is not an issue affecting my upgrade decision. >   2 We just upgraded to 8.2 for the following reasons:  G 1) we've got a support agreement but regular support for 7.3-2 ends in   DEC-2006  @ 2) we wanted to install Samba (only available on 8.2 and higher)  L 3) one of our developers wanted to continue development of an ACME project. M (ACME is fully supported on 8.2 but was only available with 7.3-2 through an   ACME Early Adopter's Kit)   , 4) newer software is usually better software  L We won't even think about upgrading to 8.3 until one (or more) consolidated  patch kits is available.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 18:52:49 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER); Subject: Re: Should I upgrade from 7.3-2 and if so to what? , Message-ID: <451ac881$1@news.langstoeger.at>  H In article <efbt9502h6u@enews1.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com writes:8 >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote:G >> I suggest V8.2 now and V8.3 real soon now (some layered products are L >> missing especially 3rd party of course). But V7.3-2 (aka V7.5 ;-) is alsoE >> ok so far. V7.3-2 support will change to PVS end of this year (but  >> hobbyists don't care) > E >Is there a list of missing layered products?  What prevents previous 4 >versions of these layered products from being used?  < There is no such complete list. That is exactly the problem.  I As long as you have no information if a product works with V8.3 you can't J upgrade to V8.3. You can try it yourself of course (on a test machine) andK then share the info (with us of course ;-) or simply wait for this info (by . other users or by the vendor) to be available.   eg. J I know of an application which doesn't work with the TCPIP scalable kernelJ hence so far not with VMS V8 (but it might work with TCPware on VMS V8 ;-)  H I know of TCPware which works with V8.3 after installing an TCPware ECO.  ; I know of GNV V2.1 which even requires V8.3 to install/run.   J I know of LD which is now included in VMS and is better deinstalled before the VMS 8.3 upgrade   H I know of CSWS V2.1-1 (and CSWS*UPDATE V1 for its addons and PERL) which> came out after V8.3 appeared (so most likely they run on V8.3)  A I know of AVAILMAN V2.6 which came out with V8.3 (so is for V8.3)   M I know of AMDS which doesn't support VMS V8 and should better be deinstalled.   K I know of ORACLE Classic which isn't certified for V8.3 yet (but might run)   J I know of a JAVA150 which came out after V8.3 appeared (so most likely...)  < I know of SSL V1.3 which came out with V8.3 (so is for V8.3)  I I know of Jakarta (CSWS_JAVA) which doesn't know about JAVA142 or JAVA150 G but can be tweaked easily to accept them (and maybe the lastest +UPDATE  fixed that already)   = I know of ECP V5.6A which came out with V8.3 (so is for V8.3)   K I don't know so far of ASOVMS, Compilers, CSWB, DFG, DFU, DIA, GTK, INGRES, N KERBEROS, MMOV, MX, MYSQL, NETBEANS, OPL, PYTHON, TDC, ... just to name a few.    M Should be easy fixable in a couple of days/weeks, but isn't so far completely  solved. And that was my point   L The VMS SW Rollout Plan solves some of this questions related to HP productsF (but isn't bugfree and therefor often makes some questions as well ;-)  2 	http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/os/swroll/  M I admit, the SWROL is way better than it used to be with earlier VMS upgrades    HIH    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 09:41:26 -0700( From: "Lee Clark" <clarknws@charter.net> Subject: Re: Some questions C Message-ID: <1159375286.161737.319720@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   N > 1) Why Do I need to install the TDC DCL command (via TDC$DCL.CLD) on my own?K > Normally products install their DCL commands during product installation. G > This is not the case with TDC_RT (which is included in VMS since V8.2 ? > but its DCL command "TDC" is not) and probably also with TDC.  > Really Intended or a bug?   E Really intended. There was never any intention that the TDC collector D be generally available to all users on the system -- unlike the case? with MONITOR, for example, there's absolutely nothing in TDC to / interest or amuse casual users. In fact, TDC is ; primarily an API for use by performance-analysis/monitoring C applications, which would typically install their own commands. The @ application that runs in response to the "TDC" command is mostlyD provided as a convenience (the source code is included in the SDK to, demonstrate use of some aspects of the API).  C You will also discover that running TDC requires various privileges 
 that you have ) to enable prior to running the collector.   B Installation of TDC$DCL.CLD -- I assume you mean into DCLTABLES -- isn't @ really appropriate in all cases. The OpenVMS installation/update manuals and 1 the TDC documentation make repeated references to   % $ SET COMMAND SYS$COMMON:[TDC]TDC$DCL   1 Why not just add that command to your login file?      > I > 2) What to do with TDC_RT if there is a newer version of the TDC files? K > Should I use the newer version of TDC_RT coming with the next VMS version L > (regarding the duty of TDC_RT, I don't think so) or should I use TDC then?I > Or should I stay on the older version, because the newer version brings 3 > only advantages for the latest VMS version (8.3)?   % You should visit the download site at & http://www.hp.com/products/openvms/tdcE and download/install the most recent version of the TDC software. The  V2.2D software there is more recent than any TDC_RT version installed with OpenVMS.  F Newer versions include bug fixes and additional functionality that are not ? necessarily tied to a particular OpenVMS version. And note that  "functionality" E often means programmer enhancements rather than something intended to  be useful to the general user.  > The TDC V2.2 release notes address installing TDC over TDC_RT.   > G > 3) IF I install TDC (V2.2) then should I remove TDC_RT (V2.1) before? I > Can I safely remove TDC_RT? (I already did and ignored the big warning, & > but what problems could arise then?)  E You should leave TDC_RT "as-is." Removal technically puts you into an E "unsupported" configuration, and the point of the "big warning" is to  tellG you that. That said, at this particular moment in time, I don't know of  any E particular calamity that is likely to result -- but that could change  at any. future point in time, with or without warning.   > E > 4) If I install TDC and choose not to install the SDK, it does only K > install the files for the current version/platform. Without SDK, is there K > really no need for the other files (say V8.3) in a mixed version cluster? I > Or should there be another question whether I want to install the other  > (itanic and/or 8.3) files   C If the system is clustered while you're doing the install, then you  should? be asked which software you want to install. In a mixed-version  cluster,C you should install the runtime software for all platform types that  will be E able to access the software -- see the TDC_COMPLETE_INSTALL_GUIDE.TXT D for further details. If all systems have their own system disks, and SYS$SYSROOT G doesn't lead to a root shared among all systems, then you might have to  install multiple times.   F Which TDC release are you installing? I remember fixing a problem like thatE you describe (not getting asked about which files to install) several  months8 ago; I'm pretty sure that fix is in the current web kit.   > E > 5) How do you (if you do) use TDC? What do you start in VMS startup F > (besides the TDC$STARTUP.COM of course)? And do you use TDC$SYOPTS ? >   C TDC$SYSOPTS contains more-or-less latent hooks for potential future 
 enhancements.   C TDC is used as the data collector for ECP on OpenVMS V8.2 and later  (optionally  on OpenVMS V7.3-2).   G TDC is used as the data collector for the OpenView(R) Performance Agent  for OpenVMS.  5 Some of the data provided by TDC might be used by T4.   @ TDC is generally not intended to be started as a part of the VMS startup; I believe@ that is mentioned as one of the restrictions in the current V2.2 release notes.? Generally, wait until the system is fully booted before running  software (including 3 the TDC application) that uses TDC to collect data.    I hope this helps.  	 Lee Clark  OpenVMS engineering    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 07:27:16 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: TPU Reload command 3 Message-ID: <iKPU644qVZ$R@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <1159314955.167074.132970@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, vancouvercancun@yahoo.ca writes:C > For example, assume it is the log output of a long running batch. 1 > Output is periodically written to file on disk. C > The file is already open in the buffers list. I am looking at the H > content of the file. I want to reload the same file once in a while toD > read the latest output. I want to code a macro that will close theI > current buffer and reopen the same buffer with the new content. What is H > the TPU code allowing me to do this macro ? Anybody has coded some TPU > routines ? > G    Hit command, enter "show buffer", move the cursor to the file you've C    been reading, hit delete and answer the prompt.  That closes the     file.  4    Hit command, enter "get file", answer the prompt.  ?    To write a function to do this all in one step, just look up /    those steps in sys$examples:*.tpu and mimic.    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 05:35:03 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: TPU Reload command C Message-ID: <1159360503.900100.232000@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    vancouvercancun@yahoo.ca wrote: C > For example, assume it is the log output of a long running batch. 1 > Output is periodically written to file on disk. C > The file is already open in the buffers list. I am looking at the H > content of the file. I want to reload the same file once in a while toD > read the latest output. I want to code a macro that will close theI > current buffer and reopen the same buffer with the new content. What is H > the TPU code allowing me to do this macro ? Anybody has coded some TPU > routines ? >  > TIA   ; Have you considered using TYPE with various combinations of    /TAIL  /CONTINUOUS/INTERVAL=5 /PAGE=SAVE=n  ? ? (Of course, always using /CONTINUOUS/INTERVAL=5 or some other  appropriate interval.)   AEF    [...]    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 06:02:37 -07003 From: "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com>  Subject: Re: TPU Reload command C Message-ID: <1159362157.374069.218220@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   3 Here is something that comes around, going around..    vancouvercancun@yahoo.ca wrote: D > Say, when looking at a file in TPU, I know the underlying file hasD > changed on disk and I want to reload it with a single command(likeH > Gold+R). Has anybody already coded a EVE routine to do this ? Or would+ > like to point me in the right direction ?  >  > TIA 
 > Stephane  B This very topic was discussed here back in October 2004. It is at:   http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_frm/thread/c8deb692a085d64d/3b67bd6ecf0a0b00?lnk=st&q=&rnum=2&hl=en#3b67bd6ecf0a0b00  > It was a topic initiated by JF. I remember it especially, as IG contributed to the thread several times, suggesting at one point,  that C it was a waste of effort, as hardly anybody would ever want such an 5 option! Shows what I know about the public's wishes..   E The final version, which includes EVE's are-you-sure safety checks if  it was amended, looked like:   procedure eve_revert local the_file; 1 the_file := get_info(current_buffer,"file_name"); - if  eve$delete_buffer (current_buffer, FALSE)  then   eve_get (the_file);  endif;  
 endprocedure;   " Then define your key to call this.   HTH  - John    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Sep 2006 07:06:39 +01002 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation or Alpha for learning OpenVMS ? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-49dGXIRedIFU@dave2_os2.home.ours>   F On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:25:08 UTC, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote:   K > The PS2 keyboard is the reason for the demise of the keyclick.  It had no M > speaker, nor any command to program a keyclick or keyboard bell.  The LK450 L > was the only PS2 keyboard I know of that had a keyclick (and you could notJ > set the volume - and only a local key sequence could turn it on/off), it= > also had a bell tone - but there was no command to ring it.  > ) > Blame the PC for lowering the standard.    I do!!!   E Thanks for the explanation Fred - means you need noisy keyboards for  C the audio feedback.... this LK411 is loud enough in my workroom at   home :-)   --   Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.531 ************************