1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 29 Sep 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 535       Contents: Re: 4, 6, 8, or 80 cores?  Re: 4, 6, 8, or 80 cores? ' Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin air ' Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin air * Re: Anyone still using Wordperfect VMS 7.3: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server?: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server? Re: Cluster_Authorize question Re: Cluster_Authorize question	 ES40 NICs  Re: Graphic options for DS10L & Re: HP announces new Integrity servers& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers& Re: HP announces new Integrity servers$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET) Re: Intel to add new instructions to 8086 ) Re: Intel to add new instructions to 8086 2 Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering2 Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering" Re: Normal temperature for DS10L ?" Re: Normal temperature for DS10L ?7 Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario 7 Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario 7 Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario 7 Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario ? Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date ? Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date ? Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date ? Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date ? Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date ? Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date 5 Re: OSU HTTP Server System Info Disclosure Weaknesses / Re: VMS 8.2 complaint: screen cleared at login. / Re: VMS 8.2 complaint: screen cleared at login.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:59:37 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> " Subject: Re: 4, 6, 8, or 80 cores?< Message-ID: <451d08db$0$24169$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  I "John Gemignani, Jr." <john@nfw-invalid.cibtrikker.com> wrote in message  0 news:avGdnWbeosdsMoHYnZ2dnUVZ_qOdnZ2d@dls.net... >  [...snip...]K > See Andrew's response and go back to the original article cited and they  H > talk about floating point. I believe that there may be a video on the H > Intel site where engineers present about the 80-core research project. [...snip...]  3 It looks to me like they are doing two things here:   L 1) simplify the core to favour floating-point operations to break some kind  of teraflop record  M 2) working out a way to improve core interconnects (once improved they would  D be able to switch back to standard cores do produce a single socket  implementation of SMP)  @ http://www.intel.com/technology/techresearch/terascale/index.htm  , http://www.nordichardware.com/news,4691.html  6 http://www.pcauthority.com.au/feature.aspx?CIaFID=1518  8 http://techreport.com/etc/2006q3/fall-idf/index.x?page=1  E What ever they are doing, it will affect the whole computer industry   (including us)  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada." http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 07:24:22 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> " Subject: Re: 4, 6, 8, or 80 cores?C Message-ID: <1159539862.450221.103630@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Neil Rieck wrote: J > "John Gemignani, Jr." <john@nfw-invalid.cibtrikker.com> wrote in message2 > news:avGdnWbeosdsMoHYnZ2dnUVZ_qOdnZ2d@dls.net... > >  > [...snip...]L > > See Andrew's response and go back to the original article cited and theyI > > talk about floating point. I believe that there may be a video on the J > > Intel site where engineers present about the 80-core research project. > [...snip...] > 5 > It looks to me like they are doing two things here:  > M > 1) simplify the core to favour floating-point operations to break some kind  > of teraflop record > N > 2) working out a way to improve core interconnects (once improved they wouldE > be able to switch back to standard cores do produce a single socket  > implementation of SMP)  ? AMD have just bought ATI and are expected to integrate Graphics G directly with the CPU they and also announced a number of agreements to A allow 3rd parties to build devices that connect directly into the  Opteron Interconnect.   D IBM for example has plans to integrate CELL with Opteron for big HPC; customers and has apparently won business with this design.   ; http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/05/ibm_roadrunner_amd/   G It remains to be seen if Intels anouncements are more to do with trying > to dampen the AMD fire than to do with big technology changes.   Regards  Andrew Harrison  > B > http://www.intel.com/technology/techresearch/terascale/index.htm > . > http://www.nordichardware.com/news,4691.html > 8 > http://www.pcauthority.com.au/feature.aspx?CIaFID=1518 > : > http://techreport.com/etc/2006q3/fall-idf/index.x?page=1 > F > What ever they are doing, it will affect the whole computer industry > (including us) >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.# > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:18:57 -0700 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>0 Subject: Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin air: Message-ID: <QKSdnTpVtLByk4DYnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Syltrem wrote:    O > On a sister's company server, OVMS 7.3-1, they reported that a .DIR file has   > gone away suddenly. O > Files were opened in that directory at the time (as SHOW DEV/FIL could show)  L > , but you could no longer do a DIRECTORY on those; the directory was gone.  F In VMS 1.0 it was possible to rename a directory into itself, at whichF point it, and all the files inside, completely disappeared.  I thought' that was fixed a long time ago, though.    Something like:    RENAME X.DIR [-.X]   (It was about 27 years ago.)   -- glen    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:01:47 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 0 Subject: Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin airJ Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-9EF8E6.15014729092006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  : In article <QKSdnTpVtLByk4DYnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@comcast.com>,2  glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:   > Syltrem wrote: >  > M > > On a sister's company server, OVMS 7.3-1, they reported that a .DIR file   > > has  > > gone away suddenly. K > > Files were opened in that directory at the time (as SHOW DEV/FIL could  
 > > show) N > > , but you could no longer do a DIRECTORY on those; the directory was gone. > H > In VMS 1.0 it was possible to rename a directory into itself, at whichH > point it, and all the files inside, completely disappeared.  I thought) > that was fixed a long time ago, though.  >  > Something like:  >  > RENAME X.DIR [-.X] >  > (It was about 27 years ago.) >   G I had one (only 9 years ago), where a directory ended up with an entry  E in the wrong order. The file entries as shown by DUMP /DIRECTORY went  something like this:   a.a  b.b  x.x  c.c   I The system couldn't see past x.x, and exactly according to Murphy's Law,  H that month's payroll details to be sent off to the bank in 2 hours time  had been "lost".  D ANAL/DISK/REPAIR recovered the situation. The problem arose because B there was a mix of VMS versions on the cluster which wasn't fully 
 supported.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 04:11:42 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk3 Subject: Re: Anyone still using Wordperfect VMS 7.3 C Message-ID: <1159528302.418568.147280@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   E I'm not using it now, but the last time I used it I remember that you F have to go into it with the "administrative" qualifier (can't rememebrE the exact keyword) to be able to declare a printer queue to print to. A Integrated queues didn't play nicely with Pathworks at one point, . though I'm not sure if this was sorted or not. Steve    mebos wrote: > Need some help with printing >  > Alec   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 07:28:45 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) C Subject: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server? 3 Message-ID: <CyeKe5fCYxTp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <mdd7izn92f9.fsf@panix5.panix.com>, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes: > Q > VAX was the first architecture from DEC^WDigital that did *not* support DECtape Q > (which originated--in the form that was used on DEC equipment--on the PDP-1) on & > at least some members of the family.  C    Was there any architecture prior to the VAX which didn't support F    fanfold?  I saw DECtape spools on PDP-10, but I don't recall seeing    fanfold on them.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 07:46:05 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.orgC Subject: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server? 3 Message-ID: <3eh5GOJ2JH2u@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <CyeKe5fCYxTp@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: f > In article <mdd7izn92f9.fsf@panix5.panix.com>, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes: >>  R >> VAX was the first architecture from DEC^WDigital that did *not* support DECtapeR >> (which originated--in the form that was used on DEC equipment--on the PDP-1) on' >> at least some members of the family.  > E >    Was there any architecture prior to the VAX which didn't support H >    fanfold?  I saw DECtape spools on PDP-10, but I don't recall seeing >    fanfold on them.   E Fanfold?  You mean high speed fan fold paper tape?  As opposed to the = low speed spool-fed yellow stuff that you'd use on an ASR33?     ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 04:26:41 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk' Subject: Re: Cluster_Authorize question A Message-ID: <1159529201.834498.31320@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   = Two copies of the file is one possibility, but the overriding D wqquestion I would have is why are you mucking about in the internal. contents of the cluster authorization file JF?   - Have a file that works. B - Copy it to the system disks of the systems that need to join the cluster. - Reboot them into the cluster.   @ I know it works because I've done it!  I can't even remember theG password for my cluster at home, but I have added VAX and Alpha systems D in at various times without the need to know what I put in ten yearsA ago when I got my first MicroVAX 3400 and three VAXstation 3100s!   G Note that if you change the contents of the cluster authorization file, ? you may (will) hae to reboot the clsuter to make use of the new F details.  You also need to make sure that you do a SET ENVIRON/CLUSTERG before you issue the cluster authorization modification command so that 3 all of the cluster_authorize.dat files get updated.    Steve   G p.s. if anyone wants a CPU and memory, plus maybe some other QBus cards % for a MicroVAX 3900, give me a shout.   
 jls wrote:. > On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:37:05 -0400, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  >  > >OK, big problem here... > > J > >contents of cluster_authorize.dat is all 0s except for 4 bytes E48851CF > >near the top. > > K > >MC SYSMAN CONFIG SET CLUSTER/PASSWORD=xxx/GROUP=yyy   accesses the file, H > >but doesn't change the contents. (i.e. I changed the group number and7 > >the only 4 nonzero bytes in the file didn't change).  > >  > > E > >Is this normal ?  Are the contents stored in some deep down hidden  > >semantics ? > >  > F > Is it possible there's a copy in sys$specific and one in sys$common?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:44:57 +0100 ! From: Baldrick <none@[127.0.0.1]> ' Subject: Re: Cluster_Authorize question ' Message-ID: <efjbhv$df7$1@lore.csc.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > OK, big problem here...  > I > contents of cluster_authorize.dat is all 0s except for 4 bytes E48851CF  > near the top.  > J > MC SYSMAN CONFIG SET CLUSTER/PASSWORD=xxx/GROUP=yyy   accesses the file,G > but doesn't change the contents. (i.e. I changed the group number and 6 > the only 4 nonzero bytes in the file didn't change).  ' I've hacked the rest of the question...   A If the file is not changing, perhaps you have more than one copy!   G The cluster number is coded, and you can decode it from that file, but   the password is a one way hash.   H The location for the file is in SYS$SYSTEM of the node in question, but I that is also SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE] and SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE], matching the   expected searchlist.  L Looking at your file, you should have the first pair of longwords populated.  ! e.g. $ DUMP CLUSTER_AUTHORIZE.DAT   9 File ID (14,25497,0)   End of file block 1 / Allocated 18   3 Virtual block number 1 (00000001), 512 (0200) bytes   =   00000000 00000000 yyyyyyyy 0000zzzz ................ 000000  ...   B I've replaced the data in the longwords with zzzzz and yyyyyyyy !!  E y's are your password, the z is your cluster number in HEX of course.   I In summary you're not doing what you think you are doing to the file you   think your doing it to!   B Check for multiple copies in the searchlist that is SYS$SYSTEM:...  I This file, and copies of, can introduce very odd behaviour with multiple  < interconnected clusters, but that story is for another time.   --  E Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. Car Park Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:32:04 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> Subject: ES40 NICs) Message-ID: <op.tgnhnqsxtte90l@hyrrokkin>   C I need to get a couple of Ethernet contollers.  Anybody have a list  of compatible boards?   5 Also I can confirm that ATI Radeon 7500 works but not 
 ATI RAGEXL   --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------   Date: 29 Sep 2006 16:42:08 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com & Subject: Re: Graphic options for DS10L+ Message-ID: <efjid00qum@enews4.newsguy.com>   + Steven M. Schweda <sms@antinode.org> wrote:  > From: healyzh@aracnet.com   L > > On a related note, how badly will a XP1000/667 raise the room temp vs. a> > > PWS433au?  I'm trying to decide if the XP1000 is to blame.   >    My documents suggest:  8 >       PWS Rated Input Current (100VAC-120VAC):    5.5A8 >       XP1000 Rated Input Current (100VAC-120VAC): 6.5A  I > So the XP1000 _should_ be able to make (18%) more heat than a PWS, but, G > of course, it depends on what's in them.  My subjective impression is D > that my 500MHz XP1000 spews more hot air than my (now disused) PSWI > 500a[u] did.  The XP1000 felt enough warmer that I added another (slow) B > fan at the top of the back wall.  (I don't know if it makes much3 > difference to the hardware, but _I_ feel better.)   L OK, that's what I was starting to fear.  Come to think of it, the VAXstationL 4000/vlc with BA353 that I have running now might also be effecting things. L I might have to take the VAX down to see the effect it has on the heat level in that corner.    	Zane    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 01:31:52 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> / Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers C Message-ID: <1159518712.065358.118680@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Main, Kerry wrote: > > -----Original Message-----6 > > From: Andrew [mailto:andrew_harrison@symantec.com]$ > > Sent: September 28, 2006 8:19 AM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 > > Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers  > >  > >  > > Main, Kerry wrote:" > > > > -----Original Message-----7 > > > > From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net] ( > > > > Sent: September 19, 2006 1:04 PM! > > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com   7 > > > > Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers  > > > >  > > > > Main, Kerry wrote: >  > [snip...]  >  > ? > > It was being held back by lack of SW support but with major ? > > ISV's like IBM caving in under customer pressure that is no  > > longer the issue it was. > > > > > Its interesting that your whole case hinges on discounting> > > Solaris x86 as an OS platform when the reality is that the? > > customers who are at the end of the day the only people who  > > count don't agree with you.  > >  > > Regards  > > Andrew Harrison  > >  > F > Andrew, I was trying to be nice. While there are no doubt some smallI > number of exceptions that can be brought up, most Customers I have been H > involved with on large scale DC and server consolidation projects thatG > have low-mid range Solaris servers are moving those to Linux. If they D > have experience with it and do appreciate Solaris, then when doing> > consolidation, they look to larger Solaris on SPARC servers. >   B Why be concerned about being nice, I don't work for Sun I work forF Symantec. my observations are not from the perspective of a Sun personF involved in the Solaris x86 roll outs but a Symantec person supportingA the Backup, Volume Management, Clustering, Storage Management and 1 reporting SW layer being used in these roll outs.   B I would strongly suggest that what you are seing is the end of theF Linux wave in companies that were not early adopters of Linux. The twoE banks I am working with were right at the forefront of Linux adoption ? one had a hand in funding one of the major Linux distributions.   B > The HW is just not that big of a slice of the overall IT budget.  B In both the cases I refer to the belated realisation that HW isn'tF actually the biggest contributor to IT costs is one of the reasons whyF these companies are going Solaris x86. Put simply they have found thatE Solaris is extremely competitive from a TCO perspective compared with D either Linux or Windows and because Solaris runs on exactly the sameG platforms that they use to host both Linux and Windows the TCO analysis < is not confused by capacity/platform capability differences.  C 5 years ago Solaris advocates were on the defensive when it came to E comparisons between Solaris and Linux, it was slower the Linux on the C same hardware, seemed to be behind the development curve and lacked - what you could describe as the "cool" factor.   F Today its the Linux advocates that are on the defensive, Solaris 10 isE as fast as Linux on the same hardware, is generally accepted to scale E better supporting much bigger configurations and it has loads of both D "cool" and highly usefull technologies such as SMF/DTrace/PredictiveC Self healing etc. Instead of Solaris playing catchup with Linux the F boot is now on the other foot with OpenSource developers scrambling toF match the capabilities that Solaris supports and advocates trying hard to manage the damage.   @ Try this reference for an insight into why Solaris may be making inroads into Linux  7 http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/content/dtrace/blogs/jarod/    regards  Andrew Harrison  > 
 > [snip..] > 	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax: 613-591-4477  > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)  > 6 > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 04:47:50 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers * Message-ID: <451CDDB6.BFFE8D@teksavvy.com>  
 Andrew wrote: H > Today its the Linux advocates that are on the defensive, Solaris 10 is) > as fast as Linux on the same hardware,    
 Mr Andrew,  H Since applications is what matters, how would you characterize TRENDS in+ software availability on Solaris vs Linux ?   B I realise that from a geek point of view Linux may be way ahead ofD SOlaris in terms of freeware becoming available, but from a businessC point of view, does Linux have momentum in getting the serious apps  (Oracle, SAP etc) ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:46:48 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> / Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-69F375.13464829092006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  C In article <1159518712.065358.118680@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, /  "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> wrote:    > B > Try this reference for an insight into why Solaris may be making > inroads into Linux > 9 > http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/content/dtrace/blogs/jarod/   E Thanks, that was interesting, particularly the observation regarding  @ customer concerns about finding themselves in the "OS business".   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 06:35:09 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> / Subject: Re: HP announces new Integrity servers C Message-ID: <1159536909.025700.129930@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Andrew wrote: J > > Today its the Linux advocates that are on the defensive, Solaris 10 is* > > as fast as Linux on the same hardware, >  > Mr Andrew, > J > Since applications is what matters, how would you characterize TRENDS in- > software availability on Solaris vs Linux ?  > D > I realise that from a geek point of view Linux may be way ahead ofF > SOlaris in terms of freeware becoming available, but from a businessE > point of view, does Linux have momentum in getting the serious apps  > (Oracle, SAP etc) ?   D I think Linux probably has the edge over Solaris x86 but Solaris x86F has enough infrastructure components, messaging, web, app-server, DBMSD to allow it to deliver good platform support for most peoples needs.D The Oracle's and the SAP's of this world all support Solaris x86, asB far as I know Oracle use it for their development environment, not; suprising when you see the comments from the Blog I posted.   E >From a freeware/OpenSource perspective because Solaris is openSource E itself there are teams of volunteers porting standard OpenSource apps @ to Solaris x86, Sun always supported a pretty large chunk of theF standard freeware SW with each Solaris release anyway. GCC/Apache etc.  @ Solaris on SPARC still has an edge over Linux and as Solaris x86G increases in popularity I would expect to see most if not all the ISV's 5 who support Solaris on SPARC doing the same with x86.   D One fly in the Solaris x86 ointment has ironically been Sun's sucessC with the T1000/T2000 Niagara boxes, one bank I havn't mentioned was A increasingly interested in x86 but abruptly stopped asking us for B Solaris x86 support, turned out that they had started buying SPARCA based T1000/T2000 boxes because for their workloads they are very ' competitive with 1-2U x86 boxes anyway.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 06:04:25 -0700 From: mckinneyj@saic.com- Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET C Message-ID: <1159535065.044849.149330@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote: L > [VELO]   [WHEEL]  [BIKE1]                       [BIKE]    [MAC]  [PRINTER]G >   +          +       +       +++++++++++++++       +        +       + G >   +          +       +       +             +       +        +       + L > [**********HUB********************]   [**********SWITCH/ROUTER***********] >  >  > BIKE is the new DS10L alpha. >  > E > BIKE was able to boot from [VELO] via MOP, but not without problems 
 > later onM > (for instance, when VAXCLUSTER=2 it would jam or crash during system boot).  > = > I configured DECNET and LAT on BIKE. But could not connect.  > I > I never though the switch could be the problem. But when I plugged BIKE J > in the HUB, all of a sudden, MC LATCP SHOW SERVICES on BIKE revealed theR > existance of the other nodes, and from VELO, LATCP saw BIKE. DECNET also worked. > H > And low and behold, when connected to the HUB, the new Alpha now joinsJ > the cluster without problem too ! I didn't think that could be the case. > H > But I guess a residential switch/router just doesn't have the logic in > it to handle these protocols.  > D > (this is a Netgear RT314 with the Zyxel firmware in it. The switch > portion is unmanaged.) > E > So, when buying a switch, is there anything one needs to look at to I > ensure that the protocols used by VMS will be passed through properly ?   A The Netgear RT314 is a really a router - not a switch. LAT is not B routable. And, apparently the RT314 doesn't know DECnet - probably$ doesn't know anything except TCP/IP.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 09:07:37 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk- Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET B Message-ID: <1159546057.849224.49600@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  B It's a router, not a switch.  Routers that don't know about DECnetF don't know what to do with it so do nothing.  LAT isn't routable.  MOP isn't routable.   G Cheap 4-port and 8-port switches that really are switches are available G from your local supplier (in the UK I use Scan.co.uk, but that probably ! wouldn't be much you for you JF).    Steve    JF Mezei wrote: L > [VELO]   [WHEEL]  [BIKE1]                       [BIKE]    [MAC]  [PRINTER]G >   +          +       +       +++++++++++++++       +        +       + G >   +          +       +       +             +       +        +       + L > [**********HUB********************]   [**********SWITCH/ROUTER***********] >  >  > BIKE is the new DS10L alpha. >  > E > BIKE was able to boot from [VELO] via MOP, but not without problems 
 > later onM > (for instance, when VAXCLUSTER=2 it would jam or crash during system boot).  > = > I configured DECNET and LAT on BIKE. But could not connect.  > I > I never though the switch could be the problem. But when I plugged BIKE J > in the HUB, all of a sudden, MC LATCP SHOW SERVICES on BIKE revealed theR > existance of the other nodes, and from VELO, LATCP saw BIKE. DECNET also worked. > H > And low and behold, when connected to the HUB, the new Alpha now joinsJ > the cluster without problem too ! I didn't think that could be the case. > H > But I guess a residential switch/router just doesn't have the logic in > it to handle these protocols.  > D > (this is a Netgear RT314 with the Zyxel firmware in it. The switch > portion is unmanaged.) > E > So, when buying a switch, is there anything one needs to look at to I > ensure that the protocols used by VMS will be passed through properly ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:17:42 GMT % From: Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hp.com> - Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET 0 Message-ID: <WycTg.485$zO6.391@news.cpqcorp.net>  D Aren't the four (?) LAN ports on the typical home router supposed to? be "just like" a four port switch, and only if you want to have C traffic go from them to/from the "WAN" port does one have "routing" 	 involved?   E Still, putting everything on a small dedicated switch like one of the C new ProCurve 1800's or the old 408's :) and then having a link from F that to the home router (one of the LAN ports) might not be such a bad idea.   
 rick jones --  = portable adj, code that compiles under more than one compiler F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)D feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 09:00:31 -0700$ From: "roger" <rogerntucker@msn.com>2 Subject: Re: Intel to add new instructions to 8086C Message-ID: <1159545631.424186.109860@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   E I don't know if people really get confused, or if they are just being F picky.  We all know when you said 8086 was adding new instructions youE really meant the latest generation of the IA-32e architecture, but it C really helps us take you seriously (and you will get less confusing ? comments) when you get the name of the CPUs and or names of the @ architectures correct and people will stop giving comments like:  C Tom: I rather doubt that, 8086 hasn't been produced for at least 15  years A or Hoff: or for a massive back-port to 16-bit 8086 to justify the  effort  B 8086 was a 16 bit CPU designed in 1978, which gave rise to the x86C architecture.  No one in their right mind would care to have VMS on C such an old dead architecture as the 8086!  But just about everyone E that loves VMS feels like VMS could have a future if it ported to the ? latest greatest PC hardware either made by Intel or AMD; now or E sometime in the near future.  Currently that is the IA32e by Intel or F the X86-64 by AMD.  Even theses architectures may need some changes toF complete the use of 4 modes for VMS to be ported; HP should be working@ with AMD and/or Intel now to get what they need (if any) in next  generation chips to support VMS.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 09:36:21 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk2 Subject: Re: Intel to add new instructions to 8086B Message-ID: <1159547781.373560.92790@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   JF, 1 You've got an Alpha now, you can come up to date. G 8086 is not a 64-bit architecture.  It's not even 32-bit.  It's 16-bit. B  8086 isn't made any more.  There is no current line of servers or- desktops or laptops that use 8086 processors.    IT'S IA-32 or IA-32e   Steve   . JF Mezei used his own notation style to write: > Hoff Hoffman wrote: L > >    If there is a sufficient market predicted for a hypothetical port to=  64-bit L > > IA-32e or for a massive back-port to 16-bit 8086 to justify the effort,=  then a L > > port might (will?) happen.  But until there's a business case, it's all=  just a L > > continued and interesting discussion -- and I am aware of no plans for = porting  > > OpenVMS. > E > Come on ! Everyone knowns that you are going to take the wadload of G > "amicable parting" money from HP and then devote lots of time to help H > complete the FreeVMS project that will run on 64 bit 8086s. (since youB > know the VMS code by heart, it will probably take you just a few& > afternoons to complete the project). > G > After that, your company will merge with Bruden and Process and offer I > support services (=E0 la Red Hat) for freeVMS on the 8086 platform. And J > FreeVMS will grow faster than OpenVMS and you'll do an IPO on the NASDAQG > and before long, your company will have greater net worth than HP :-) 	 > ;-) :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 07:21:33 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ; Subject: Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering 3 Message-ID: <FVpvFGXsn0Fa@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <efhaev$tb5$6@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: D > In article <4o2kd8FcfmitU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill > Gunshannon) writes:  > F >> Discrimination based on age may be illegal in the letter of the lawH >> and evil in principal, but it is also alive and well, even within the >> government itself.  > I > And there is the law which says the President of the United States must ? > be a) at least 40 years old and b) born in the United States.   G    That's in the Constitution, which supercedes the Federal Law against     age discrimination.   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Sep 2006 12:38:49 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon); Subject: Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering + Message-ID: <4o4iepFcsa3vU1@individual.net>   3 In article <FVpvFGXsn0Fa@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:y > In article <efhaev$tb5$6@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: E >> In article <4o2kd8FcfmitU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill  >> Gunshannon) writes:   >>  G >>> Discrimination based on age may be illegal in the letter of the law I >>> and evil in principal, but it is also alive and well, even within the  >>> government itself. >>  J >> And there is the law which says the President of the United States must@ >> be a) at least 40 years old and b) born in the United States. > I >    That's in the Constitution, which supercedes the Federal Law against  >    age discrimination.  G And while arguing about being President (why anyine would actually want G to is beyond my ability to comprehend!) is fun, I was talking about the F much more common form.  Where you say "You can't have that job becauseE your too old." with no consideration to ability to perform the duties > required of the job.  (Hint: It's in Title 10 of the US Code.)   bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:14:09 +0000 (UTC) / From: John Forkosh <forkosh@seeSig4address.com> + Subject: Re: Normal temperature for DS10L ? , Message-ID: <efj2mh$9a3$1@reader1.panix.com>  . JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: : William Webb wrote:  <<snip>>I : > And did you RTFM?  I believe ambient and operating temp ranges are in 
 : > there. : J : I just found the manual you sent me. But generally ambinat/operating areE : the the same temps that are deep inside the box. (BTW, where is the + : thermometre in the DS10L ? Near the CPU ?   > Are there any online hardware references for the DS10 (not L)?2 I have the console reference manual from HP's siteW http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/archive/ds10/ds10_tech.html?jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN < which contains a lot of useful hardware information, but not like a reference.  Thanks, --  > John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:05:17 -0400 < From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com>+ Subject: Re: Normal temperature for DS10L ? 0 Message-ID: <12hqh244tsco7e5@news.supernews.com>  I They do run warm - but make sure there is no obstruction with the airflow ' and an airconditioned room is preferred H if not, buy a fan that will blow on the box - it makes a huge difference  B Normal operating temps on these things are higher than most - thatL temperature is measured by the sensor on the front of the box (where the 2nd hard drive would go)       --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:451C4FD3.96315F70@teksavvy.com...J > When powered off, my new DS10L is about 25  (STATUS at the RMC> prompt, > or SHOW POWER at >>> prompt) > I > When powered on, it quickly rises to 44 and then slowly rises to about  > 49 in a couple of hours.  > 8 > An alert is set to be made at 55 and shutdown at 60. >  > ( > Are there temperatures pretty normal ? > I > All fans seems to be operating. And the air coming out the back is hot.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 07:34:58 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) @ Subject: Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario3 Message-ID: <SPrCDM+JTEgE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <mddac4j92uz.fsf@panix5.panix.com>, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes:  N > Does anyone think that HP would be amenable to a group, such as a DECUS LUG,M > purchasing a cover contract under which SPRs could be submitted.  I envison L > the members of such a group pooling resources to pay for the contract, and( > everyone's system being named therein.  G    If I were HP, I'd include an SPR submission route with all hobbyist  I    licenses.  They might not get the same priority as a paying customer,      but:   D    1)  HP would be made aware of any actual bugs found by people who%       clearly care about the product.   E    2)  HP would look like it was just a little seriously caring about        the product.  G    I think in the past us hobbyists were able to get the attention here E    of folks like Guy and Hoff, who would often see to that a real bug H    was really tracked.  It's not clear that any of the new VMS Engineers!    are watching what we say here.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 07:42:04 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) @ Subject: Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario3 Message-ID: <GyxCsPYT3y8T@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <f8QAJGF9eJM1@cuebid.zko.hp.com>, brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:  > G > Also, back when I was a customer, a software support contract covered D > specific systems by serial number.  In other works, there's not a N > "pay one price" mechanism, whereby there'd be no added cost for more systems > added above a certain number.   I    Yes, we used "right to copy" for othre nodes, demonstrated the problem F    on the supported node, and then submitted the SPR, copying the demo)    files to tape from the supported node.   C    The issue is, does HP see the value in knowing about the bugs we     hobbyists find?   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 06:00:59 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>@ Subject: Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenarioC Message-ID: <1159534859.171541.174910@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E some way of submitting SPRs via the web site. Last time I submitted a F SPR it was a three sheet form you had to type on - I would hope things have moved on since then.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 08:57:09 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk@ Subject: Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenarioB Message-ID: <1159545429.510772.226560@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>  F Whilst I can understand the thinking and wouldn't disagree at it beingF a helpful thing if it were to be done (there have been a few bugs thatD I've reported by various means at various times), I would not expect3 the user groups to be too willing to organise this.   E The UK HP User Group is one of the most active in Europe and could be E second only to some of the groups in the US for overall activity.  We > are, however, under-resourced and under-appreciated as well as
 under-funded.   E Some of the groups around the world allow you to "join up" and obtain A hobbyist licenses for free.  I wouldn't expect them to want to be ( footing the bill for a support contract.   Steve    Rich Alderson wrote:4 > Just blue-skying here for a moment.  Bear with me. > I > The point has been made any number of times that continuing support for L > (Open)VMS relies on revenue from support contracts, which are probably tooK > expensive for the average hobbyist.[1]  On the other hand, a hobbyist may J > be the one to find a corner-case error before someone running a businessD > on the OS, because she has the time to play with all the features. > N > Does anyone think that HP would be amenable to a group, such as a DECUS LUG,M > purchasing a cover contract under which SPRs could be submitted.  I envison L > the members of such a group pooling resources to pay for the contract, and( > everyone's system being named therein. > E > Would such a scheme have a prayer of succeeding with HP management?  > O >                                                                 Rich Alderson  > O > [1] Extrapolating from contract costs for Tops-20 and Ultrix in their heyday.  > --N > Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |N > news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |N > "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |N >                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 01:45:07 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>H Subject: Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order dateB Message-ID: <1159519507.409857.296670@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>  G If the systems are on contract then hp know this and keep field service G spares stocks appropriately, There are issues with older kit. In the UK A hp are having trouble finding parts for older VAXes and RF series G drives (this is not surprising as they have not been manufacured for 20 G years!). Any replacement parts found are often as old as the parts they # replace and the DOA rate is higher.   E neomonix engineering do some interesting add ons for VAXes and alphas C amd they are made from new parts and are gauranteed for some years.   A For Alphaservers the 2nd hand market and hp re-marketed systems I G expect will be available for years yet. New options and upgrades are to  be sold for another year by hp. F I think parts for alphas are more mainstream that VAX parts and expect1 they will be easier to source in the years ahead.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 03:46:18 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.ukH Subject: Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order dateC Message-ID: <1159526778.345506.135710@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Dear BBC, Why oh why oh why...  @ JF, there are no modern 8086 servers.  Only modern IA32 servers.   *bangs head against wall*    JF Mezei wrote: E > Another option is to get modern 8086 servers and emulate Alpha with  > Charron Alpha product.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 07:26:39 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) H Subject: Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date3 Message-ID: <Ah3wZNb6i4k$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <1159519507.409857.296670@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> writes: I > If the systems are on contract then hp know this and keep field service I > spares stocks appropriately, There are issues with older kit. In the UK C > hp are having trouble finding parts for older VAXes and RF series I > drives (this is not surprising as they have not been manufacured for 20 I > years!). Any replacement parts found are often as old as the parts they % > replace and the DOA rate is higher.   A    RF series drives were a problem almost on the day they stopped C    shipping new.  Any of DEC's DSSI-SCSI bricks makes a fine fix.   C    Third party bricks work, too.  I hung a couple BA350 shelves off :    my non-SCSI VAX 4000 and have had no trouble with them.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 05:33:38 -0700 From: andrewr@cornasys.comH Subject: Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order dateC Message-ID: <1159533218.274091.288490@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    tadamsmar wrote:= > I see that the last alphaserver order date is Oct 27, 2006.  > F > We have VMS systems running on DS10s and few older model Alphas.  We > are running 7.3-2 VMS,< > our own applications, and using some third party software. > 7 > What are our options for replacing systems that fail?  > G > I guess we can always get service calls to replace boards to keep the - > current systems going for up to five years.  > ; > What does the after market/used systems market look like?  > E > Are there other options to avoid some of the headaches of portation A > with some third parties that may not be support VMS on Itanium?   F Try the OpenVMS Transition web site. HP provides all sorts of planning@ advice, and tools. Even a utility that translates executable and= shareable OpenVMS AlphaServer system images into functionally = equivalent images that run on OpenVMS on Integrity servers. A E translated image is an OpenVMS Integrity server image containing both F AlphaServer system code translated into Integrity server code, as well1 as the original OpenVMS AlphaServer system image.   E http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/transition/app_tools.html   C I was involved in a port of a Cobol OpenVMS Alpha application to HP A OpenVMS Integrity. We ported in half a day - re-compile and link.    With regards Andrew   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:26:51 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> H Subject: Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date9 Message-ID: <n6SdnRJJG7e5toDYnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@libcom.com>    etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote:   > Dear BBC, Why oh why oh why... > B > JF, there are no modern 8086 servers.  Only modern IA32 servers. >  > *bangs head against wall*   F It would be much better if more people accepted my solution, got some E cheap aluminum bats, and it's JF's head that received the bangs.  :-)   I I'd still prefer bribing him with a chocolate bar, but he's indicated he   won't stay bought.   > JF Mezei wrote: F >> Another option is to get modern 8086 servers and emulate Alpha with >> Charron Alpha product.  >      --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 08:46:07 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.ukH Subject: Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order dateC Message-ID: <1159544767.732340.300450@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   8 Agreed Dave, but he might recover from the experience...   Dave Froble wrote: > etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: " > > Dear BBC, Why oh why oh why... > > D > > JF, there are no modern 8086 servers.  Only modern IA32 servers. > >  > > *bangs head against wall*  > G > It would be much better if more people accepted my solution, got some G > cheap aluminum bats, and it's JF's head that received the bangs.  :-)  > J > I'd still prefer bribing him with a chocolate bar, but he's indicated he > won't stay bought. >  > > JF Mezei wrote: H > >> Another option is to get modern 8086 servers and emulate Alpha with > >> Charron Alpha product.  > >  >  >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450@ > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > DFE Ultralights, Inc.  > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 03:52:57 -0700" From: "Jose Baars" <peut@peut.org>> Subject: Re: OSU HTTP Server System Info Disclosure WeaknessesB Message-ID: <1159527177.086119.42240@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  O > Also what is OSU 3.11 alpha ? - Although it's extremely old I wasn't aware of * > any version of OSU later than OSU 3.10a. >   B The OSU webserver running at OSU identifies itself as 3.11alpha, I think 8 3.10 was the last ever version that was really released.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:36:46 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>8 Subject: Re: VMS 8.2 complaint: screen cleared at login.* Message-ID: <451c5c8f@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  K SETTERM uses SMG to get the size of the terminal.  The change was made back F in the early 90's to try to get the actual screen size.  Several yearsI layer, the change was made to SYLOGIN to add the /PAGE /WIDTH - trying to K solve some problem (with unintended consequences).  So it has been this way  for a very long time.   J But since this is only done in the case of a system login, not many people complain or care too, too much.       : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:451C43A9.3BEFA55C@teksavvy.com... > FredK wrote:G > > Under the SET TERM/INQ=OLD (the old behavior) - the screen would be  forcedC > > to 80 x 24 unless you provided the /WIDTH and /PAGE qualifiers.  > G > On VAX VMS  7.2 (and I think this chenced sometimes between 5.5-2 and G > 7.2, I think it sent an escape sequence to position the cursor at the C > bottom right of the screen and then another escape to ask for the D > cursor's position, allowing set term/inq to determine screen size. > A > I know because one of the PSION's I have has a non-compliant VT @ > emulator, and VMS would determine its screen width was line 128 > characters wide ! (and that didn't happen under 5.5-2) >  > J > This is interesting because this installation of 8.2 on an alpha was theG > first "truly new" install I did in many many many moons so getting to H > see what the default files are like is interesting. Took me a while toF > figure out what was causing the screen to clear (thought it was some= > default sys$welcome which isn't actually setup by default).  > E > Interesting to see some references to Microvax IIs still present in  > SYLOGIN on an Alpha :-)  >  > I > This isn't a show stopper because I will bring my existing sylogin from H > my VAXes over to the alpha. But for new customers, this feature may beF > quite difficult to understand/debug, so their first contact with VMS9 > after having installed it would be somewhat unpleasant.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 04:09:02 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk8 Subject: Re: VMS 8.2 complaint: screen cleared at login.C Message-ID: <1159528142.904663.132450@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   E If you're upset about the clearing of the screen JF, put in a line to D the SYLOGIN that says if I'm running interactively then wait for the= return key to be pressed or wait a certain number of seconds. 5 Or butcher the sylogin to remove the terminal resize?  Steve    FredK wrote:M > SETTERM uses SMG to get the size of the terminal.  The change was made back H > in the early 90's to try to get the actual screen size.  Several yearsK > layer, the change was made to SYLOGIN to add the /PAGE /WIDTH - trying to M > solve some problem (with unintended consequences).  So it has been this way  > for a very long time.  > L > But since this is only done in the case of a system login, not many people! > complain or care too, too much.  >  >  > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message( > news:451C43A9.3BEFA55C@teksavvy.com... > > FredK wrote:I > > > Under the SET TERM/INQ=OLD (the old behavior) - the screen would be  > forcedE > > > to 80 x 24 unless you provided the /WIDTH and /PAGE qualifiers.  > > I > > On VAX VMS  7.2 (and I think this chenced sometimes between 5.5-2 and I > > 7.2, I think it sent an escape sequence to position the cursor at the E > > bottom right of the screen and then another escape to ask for the F > > cursor's position, allowing set term/inq to determine screen size. > > C > > I know because one of the PSION's I have has a non-compliant VT B > > emulator, and VMS would determine its screen width was line 12: > > characters wide ! (and that didn't happen under 5.5-2) > >  > > L > > This is interesting because this installation of 8.2 on an alpha was theI > > first "truly new" install I did in many many many moons so getting to J > > see what the default files are like is interesting. Took me a while toH > > figure out what was causing the screen to clear (thought it was some? > > default sys$welcome which isn't actually setup by default).  > > G > > Interesting to see some references to Microvax IIs still present in  > > SYLOGIN on an Alpha :-)  > >  > > K > > This isn't a show stopper because I will bring my existing sylogin from J > > my VAXes over to the alpha. But for new customers, this feature may beH > > quite difficult to understand/debug, so their first contact with VMS; > > after having installed it would be somewhat unpleasant.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.535 ************************