1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 30 Sep 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 536       Contents:' Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin air ' Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin air ) Re: adding a disk and putting it "online" ) Re: adding a disk and putting it "online"  BACKUP locks up a directory?  Re: BACKUP locks up a directory?  Re: BACKUP locks up a directory?  Re: BACKUP locks up a directory?  Re: BACKUP locks up a directory?: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server?: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server? Re: Cluster_Authorize question Re: Cluster_Authorize question* Debugger GUI only working on some machines. Re: Debugger GUI only working on some machines
 Re: ES40 NICs 
 Re: ES40 NICs 
 Re: ES40 NICs 
 Re: ES40 NICs 
 Re: ES40 NICs 
 Re: ES40 NICs 
 HP Layoffs$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET$ Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET) Re: Intel to add new instructions to 8086 ) Re: Intel to add new instructions to 8086 ) Re: Intel to add new instructions to 8086 2 Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering2 Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering2 Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering2 Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering2 Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering2 Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering2 Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering7 Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario 7 Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario 7 Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario 7 Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario 7 Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario 7 Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario 7 Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario ? Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date ? Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date ? Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date ? Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date ? Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date 5 Re: OSU HTTP Server System Info Disclosure Weaknesses % Re: Perl qx// broken with OpenVMS 8.x   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:41:12 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin air+ Message-ID: <451D76D7.8E74DE1@teksavvy.com>    glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > Something like:  >  > RENAME X.DIR [-.X]  H Neat ! Just like the vacuum cleaner that sucks itself out of existance !   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:19:23 -0700 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>0 Subject: Re: A .DIR files vanishes into thin air: Message-ID: <vLqdneT6b9N4ToDYnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@comcast.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:   >>Something like:    >>RENAME X.DIR [-.X]  J > Neat ! Just like the vacuum cleaner that sucks itself out of existance !  G Not completely out, though.  The blocks still count against your quota.    -- glen    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:00:42 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)2 Subject: Re: adding a disk and putting it "online"$ Message-ID: <efjqgq$2uq$2@online.de>  H In article <efhufp$qfg$1@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:   B > No, it's been a while since I've tried configuring only a singleA > drive like that, so you'll have to do /SELECT=DKB (or whatever) K > which will poke other things on that bus but leave everything else alone.   D Interestingly, /LOG shows only the new device, not the ones already 7 there (which were presumably poked).  Is this expected?   C On the second VAX, it worked the first time, though I did dismount  H everything except the system disk first.  (Thanks to MINICOPY, not much : time was lost adding the members back to the shadow sets.)   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 14:27:43 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: adding a disk and putting it "online"3 Message-ID: <NEUo$HIdSDvI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <efjqgq$2uq$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: J > In article <efhufp$qfg$1@pcls4.std.com>, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com > (Michael Moroney) writes:  > C >> No, it's been a while since I've tried configuring only a single B >> drive like that, so you'll have to do /SELECT=DKB (or whatever)L >> which will poke other things on that bus but leave everything else alone. > F > Interestingly, /LOG shows only the new device, not the ones already 9 > there (which were presumably poked).  Is this expected?   < Yes.  You already knew about the ones previously configured.! Only the changes are of interest.  --  N ==============================================================================0 DoD Instruction 8500.2 field test sites wanted -- 	http://www.LJK.com/LJK/8500_2_fieldtest.html N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 13:14:30 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>% Subject: BACKUP locks up a directory? B Message-ID: <1159560870.663036.46580@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  G I was doing an image backup of an 18-GB disk. During this backup one of G my market servers was running the end-of-day job. At the end of the job E it copied certain files created the same day to another VAX system. A E total of 24 files are normally copied. These range in size from a few C blocks to a couple thousand. Anyway, the first 15 files were copied C okay but the next 15 failed with the following error (actual sample  from the log file):   ( %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening NODE16"FTC password"::FT_STORAGE_DISK:[FT.ARC.EQUITIES]FTOATTRN060929.SEQ;0 as  output1 -RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user A %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, _NODE2$DKA400:[FT.DAT]FTOATTRN060929.SEQ;1 not  copied  2 I assume that the "other user" was the backup job.   The DCL command was   ? $ COPY/LOG FTDAT:FT*060929*.*;0/EXCLUDE=(FTGVT*.DAT,FTSYS*.DAT) ; NODE16"FT XXXXXXXX"::FT_STORAGE_DISK:[FT.ARC.EQUITIES]*.*;0   G So I got 15 success messages, followed by 9 error messages like the one ' above, followed by the summary message.   E I aborted the backup job at this point and re-ran the EOD job. It ran C fine and copied all 24 files successfully. I looked at the tape and C sure enough, the backup job had just started copying files from the  [FT.ARC.EQUITIES] directory.  C Some more possibly relevant information: NODE2 is running VMS v6.1. D NODE16 is running VMS v6.2. The directory [FT.ARC.EQUITIES] contains@ about 24000 files. The EQUITIES.DIR file is 2751 blocks in size.  F NODE2 is a MicroVAX 3100 Model 95. NODE16 is a MicroVAX 3100 Model 80.  C Is this normal BACKUP behavior? The backup takes so long that it is G difficult to avoid the EOD job. I've done this before several times and D never had this problem. I assume I am a victim of bad timing. But isF this normal, that a "hot backup" can lock up directories and/or files?! Is there a better way to do this?    Thanks.    AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:11:23 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> ) Subject: Re: BACKUP locks up a directory? : Message-ID: <RPWdnT2l1vOSB4DYnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@comcast.com>  
 AEF wrote:I > I was doing an image backup of an 18-GB disk. During this backup one of I > my market servers was running the end-of-day job. At the end of the job G > it copied certain files created the same day to another VAX system. A G > total of 24 files are normally copied. These range in size from a few E > blocks to a couple thousand. Anyway, the first 15 files were copied E > okay but the next 15 failed with the following error (actual sample  > from the log file):  > * > %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening NODE16"FTE > password"::FT_STORAGE_DISK:[FT.ARC.EQUITIES]FTOATTRN060929.SEQ;0 as  > output3 > -RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user C > %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, _NODE2$DKA400:[FT.DAT]FTOATTRN060929.SEQ;1 not  > copied > 4 > I assume that the "other user" was the backup job. >  > The DCL command was  > A > $ COPY/LOG FTDAT:FT*060929*.*;0/EXCLUDE=(FTGVT*.DAT,FTSYS*.DAT) = > NODE16"FT XXXXXXXX"::FT_STORAGE_DISK:[FT.ARC.EQUITIES]*.*;0  > I > So I got 15 success messages, followed by 9 error messages like the one ) > above, followed by the summary message.  > G > I aborted the backup job at this point and re-ran the EOD job. It ran E > fine and copied all 24 files successfully. I looked at the tape and E > sure enough, the backup job had just started copying files from the  > [FT.ARC.EQUITIES] directory. > E > Some more possibly relevant information: NODE2 is running VMS v6.1. F > NODE16 is running VMS v6.2. The directory [FT.ARC.EQUITIES] containsB > about 24000 files. The EQUITIES.DIR file is 2751 blocks in size. > H > NODE2 is a MicroVAX 3100 Model 95. NODE16 is a MicroVAX 3100 Model 80. > E > Is this normal BACKUP behavior? The backup takes so long that it is I > difficult to avoid the EOD job. I've done this before several times and F > never had this problem. I assume I am a victim of bad timing. But isH > this normal, that a "hot backup" can lock up directories and/or files?# > Is there a better way to do this?  > 	 > Thanks.  >  > AEF  >   I With a directory 2751 blocks in size, it's no wonder things are a little  H slow!  Later versions of VMS are not quite so sensitive but at VMS V6.2 H any file added to or deleted from an oversize directory could create an @ incredible amount of overhead.  Directory entries are stored in D alphanumeric order.  When an entry is inserted in or deleted from a H directory, blocks get shuffled up or down to make room or reclaim space.? It's no big deal if you keep your directories under 100 blocks.   A If you really need to have all 24,000 files on line, I'd suggest  I spreading them over a LOT more directories.  Maybe a directory for 2006,  D one for 2005, 2004, . . . or a directory for each month or whatever.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 15:22:43 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>) Subject: Re: BACKUP locks up a directory? A Message-ID: <1159568563.604775.54800@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > AEF wrote:K > > I was doing an image backup of an 18-GB disk. During this backup one of K > > my market servers was running the end-of-day job. At the end of the job I > > it copied certain files created the same day to another VAX system. A I > > total of 24 files are normally copied. These range in size from a few G > > blocks to a couple thousand. Anyway, the first 15 files were copied G > > okay but the next 15 failed with the following error (actual sample   3 Uh, that should have read "...the next 9 failed..."    > > from the log file):  > > , > > %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening NODE16"FTG > > password"::FT_STORAGE_DISK:[FT.ARC.EQUITIES]FTOATTRN060929.SEQ;0 as 
 > > output5 > > -RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user E > > %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, _NODE2$DKA400:[FT.DAT]FTOATTRN060929.SEQ;1 not 
 > > copied > > 6 > > I assume that the "other user" was the backup job. > >  > > The DCL command was  > > C > > $ COPY/LOG FTDAT:FT*060929*.*;0/EXCLUDE=(FTGVT*.DAT,FTSYS*.DAT) ? > > NODE16"FT XXXXXXXX"::FT_STORAGE_DISK:[FT.ARC.EQUITIES]*.*;0  > > K > > So I got 15 success messages, followed by 9 error messages like the one + > > above, followed by the summary message.  > > I > > I aborted the backup job at this point and re-ran the EOD job. It ran G > > fine and copied all 24 files successfully. I looked at the tape and G > > sure enough, the backup job had just started copying files from the   > > [FT.ARC.EQUITIES] directory. > > G > > Some more possibly relevant information: NODE2 is running VMS v6.1. H > > NODE16 is running VMS v6.2. The directory [FT.ARC.EQUITIES] containsD > > about 24000 files. The EQUITIES.DIR file is 2751 blocks in size. > > J > > NODE2 is a MicroVAX 3100 Model 95. NODE16 is a MicroVAX 3100 Model 80. > > G > > Is this normal BACKUP behavior? The backup takes so long that it is K > > difficult to avoid the EOD job. I've done this before several times and H > > never had this problem. I assume I am a victim of bad timing. But isJ > > this normal, that a "hot backup" can lock up directories and/or files?% > > Is there a better way to do this?  > >  > > Thanks.  > >  > > AEF  > >  > J > With a directory 2751 blocks in size, it's no wonder things are a littleI > slow!  Later versions of VMS are not quite so sensitive but at VMS V6.2 I > any file added to or deleted from an oversize directory could create an A > incredible amount of overhead.  Directory entries are stored in E > alphanumeric order.  When an entry is inserted in or deleted from a J > directory, blocks get shuffled up or down to make room or reclaim space.A > It's no big deal if you keep your directories under 100 blocks.  > B > If you really need to have all 24,000 files on line, I'd suggestJ > spreading them over a LOT more directories.  Maybe a directory for 2006,F > one for 2005, 2004, . . . or a directory for each month or whatever.   Thanks for your quick response.   G Performance is not really an issue. The files normally copy over rather C quickly even though the directory is so huge. I suspect that BACKUP B started reading the .DIR file in the middle of the copy operation.E Could it be that the copying instigated a .DIR-file expansion and the D shuffling of the directory data screwed up the copy? Or does it haveC something to do with BACKUP? (If I needed to delete selected files, ) that would certainly go rather slowly!!!)   B Actually, I suppose the backup would run faster if I combined eachF day's files into BACKUP save sets. I actually do that before I archiveA them to CD's, but I prefer to have the individual files available E online, at least for stuff this year (I need the current year's files * in order to run occasional usage reports).  F Re spreading files over more directories -- I guess that would greatlyF reduce the odds of this problem happenning again. But it would be more work than it's worth.    Thanks for your input.   AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 15:27:14 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>) Subject: Re: BACKUP locks up a directory? C Message-ID: <1159568834.153811.236790@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   
 AEF wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > > AEF wrote:M > > > I was doing an image backup of an 18-GB disk. During this backup one of M > > > my market servers was running the end-of-day job. At the end of the job K > > > it copied certain files created the same day to another VAX system. A K > > > total of 24 files are normally copied. These range in size from a few I > > > blocks to a couple thousand. Anyway, the first 15 files were copied I > > > okay but the next 15 failed with the following error (actual sample  > 5 > Uh, that should have read "...the next 9 failed..."  >  > > > from the log file):  > > > . > > > %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening NODE16"FTI > > > password"::FT_STORAGE_DISK:[FT.ARC.EQUITIES]FTOATTRN060929.SEQ;0 as  > > > output7 > > > -RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user G > > > %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, _NODE2$DKA400:[FT.DAT]FTOATTRN060929.SEQ;1 not  > > > copied > > > 8 > > > I assume that the "other user" was the backup job. > > >  > > > The DCL command was  > > > E > > > $ COPY/LOG FTDAT:FT*060929*.*;0/EXCLUDE=(FTGVT*.DAT,FTSYS*.DAT) A > > > NODE16"FT XXXXXXXX"::FT_STORAGE_DISK:[FT.ARC.EQUITIES]*.*;0  > > > M > > > So I got 15 success messages, followed by 9 error messages like the one - > > > above, followed by the summary message.  > > > K > > > I aborted the backup job at this point and re-ran the EOD job. It ran I > > > fine and copied all 24 files successfully. I looked at the tape and I > > > sure enough, the backup job had just started copying files from the " > > > [FT.ARC.EQUITIES] directory. > > > I > > > Some more possibly relevant information: NODE2 is running VMS v6.1. J > > > NODE16 is running VMS v6.2. The directory [FT.ARC.EQUITIES] containsF > > > about 24000 files. The EQUITIES.DIR file is 2751 blocks in size. > > > L > > > NODE2 is a MicroVAX 3100 Model 95. NODE16 is a MicroVAX 3100 Model 80. > > > I > > > Is this normal BACKUP behavior? The backup takes so long that it is M > > > difficult to avoid the EOD job. I've done this before several times and J > > > never had this problem. I assume I am a victim of bad timing. But isL > > > this normal, that a "hot backup" can lock up directories and/or files?' > > > Is there a better way to do this?  > > > 
 > > > Thanks.  > > > 	 > > > AEF  > > >  > > L > > With a directory 2751 blocks in size, it's no wonder things are a littleK > > slow!  Later versions of VMS are not quite so sensitive but at VMS V6.2 K > > any file added to or deleted from an oversize directory could create an C > > incredible amount of overhead.  Directory entries are stored in G > > alphanumeric order.  When an entry is inserted in or deleted from a L > > directory, blocks get shuffled up or down to make room or reclaim space.C > > It's no big deal if you keep your directories under 100 blocks.  > > D > > If you really need to have all 24,000 files on line, I'd suggestL > > spreading them over a LOT more directories.  Maybe a directory for 2006,H > > one for 2005, 2004, . . . or a directory for each month or whatever. > ! > Thanks for your quick response.  > I > Performance is not really an issue. The files normally copy over rather E > quickly even though the directory is so huge. I suspect that BACKUP D > started reading the .DIR file in the middle of the copy operation.G > Could it be that the copying instigated a .DIR-file expansion and the F > shuffling of the directory data screwed up the copy? Or does it have  C Ughh! It's been a long day. I was thinking that somehow the need to A shuffle the directory data while BACKUP was reading it might have  screwed things up.  E > something to do with BACKUP? (If I needed to delete selected files, + > that would certainly go rather slowly!!!)  > D > Actually, I suppose the backup would run faster if I combined eachH > day's files into BACKUP save sets. I actually do that before I archiveC > them to CD's, but I prefer to have the individual files available G > online, at least for stuff this year (I need the current year's files , > in order to run occasional usage reports). > H > Re spreading files over more directories -- I guess that would greatlyH > reduce the odds of this problem happenning again. But it would be more > work than it's worth.  >  > Thanks for your input. >  > AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 00:18:15 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ) Subject: Re: BACKUP locks up a directory? 9 Message-ID: <Y4ydneOsMa-cc4DYnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@libcom.com>   
 AEF wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: 
 >> AEF wrote: K >>> I was doing an image backup of an 18-GB disk. During this backup one of K >>> my market servers was running the end-of-day job. At the end of the job I >>> it copied certain files created the same day to another VAX system. A I >>> total of 24 files are normally copied. These range in size from a few G >>> blocks to a couple thousand. Anyway, the first 15 files were copied G >>> okay but the next 15 failed with the following error (actual sample  > 5 > Uh, that should have read "...the next 9 failed..."  >  >>> from the log file):  >>> , >>> %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening NODE16"FTG >>> password"::FT_STORAGE_DISK:[FT.ARC.EQUITIES]FTOATTRN060929.SEQ;0 as 
 >>> output5 >>> -RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user E >>> %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, _NODE2$DKA400:[FT.DAT]FTOATTRN060929.SEQ;1 not 
 >>> copied >>> 6 >>> I assume that the "other user" was the backup job. >>>  >>> The DCL command was  >>> C >>> $ COPY/LOG FTDAT:FT*060929*.*;0/EXCLUDE=(FTGVT*.DAT,FTSYS*.DAT) ? >>> NODE16"FT XXXXXXXX"::FT_STORAGE_DISK:[FT.ARC.EQUITIES]*.*;0  >>> K >>> So I got 15 success messages, followed by 9 error messages like the one + >>> above, followed by the summary message.  >>> I >>> I aborted the backup job at this point and re-ran the EOD job. It ran G >>> fine and copied all 24 files successfully. I looked at the tape and G >>> sure enough, the backup job had just started copying files from the   >>> [FT.ARC.EQUITIES] directory. >>> G >>> Some more possibly relevant information: NODE2 is running VMS v6.1. H >>> NODE16 is running VMS v6.2. The directory [FT.ARC.EQUITIES] containsD >>> about 24000 files. The EQUITIES.DIR file is 2751 blocks in size. >>> J >>> NODE2 is a MicroVAX 3100 Model 95. NODE16 is a MicroVAX 3100 Model 80. >>> G >>> Is this normal BACKUP behavior? The backup takes so long that it is K >>> difficult to avoid the EOD job. I've done this before several times and H >>> never had this problem. I assume I am a victim of bad timing. But isJ >>> this normal, that a "hot backup" can lock up directories and/or files?% >>> Is there a better way to do this?  >>>  >>> Thanks.  >>>  >>> AEF  >>> K >> With a directory 2751 blocks in size, it's no wonder things are a little J >> slow!  Later versions of VMS are not quite so sensitive but at VMS V6.2J >> any file added to or deleted from an oversize directory could create anB >> incredible amount of overhead.  Directory entries are stored inF >> alphanumeric order.  When an entry is inserted in or deleted from aK >> directory, blocks get shuffled up or down to make room or reclaim space. B >> It's no big deal if you keep your directories under 100 blocks. >>C >> If you really need to have all 24,000 files on line, I'd suggest K >> spreading them over a LOT more directories.  Maybe a directory for 2006, G >> one for 2005, 2004, . . . or a directory for each month or whatever.  > ! > Thanks for your quick response.  > % > Performance is not really an issue.   I You indicate that the BACKUP performance is an issue.  Your statement is   wrong.  % > The files normally copy over rather E > quickly even though the directory is so huge. I suspect that BACKUP D > started reading the .DIR file in the middle of the copy operation.G > Could it be that the copying instigated a .DIR-file expansion and the F > shuffling of the directory data screwed up the copy? Or does it haveE > something to do with BACKUP? (If I needed to delete selected files, + > that would certainly go rather slowly!!!)  > D > Actually, I suppose the backup would run faster if I combined eachH > day's files into BACKUP save sets. I actually do that before I archiveC > them to CD's, but I prefer to have the individual files available G > online, at least for stuff this year (I need the current year's files , > in order to run occasional usage reports). > H > Re spreading files over more directories -- I guess that would greatlyH > reduce the odds of this problem happenning again. But it would be more > work than it's worth.   I No, it's not.  If you have any method of identifying files by time, then  F the work is rather trivial.  Retrival may also require some work, but I defining a logical with a list of values handles that.  A directory that  E large is obscene even on VMS V7.2 and later.  On V6.2 it's very much  H worse.  You've been given excellent advice and you've decided to ignore  it.  Why did you ask?    > Thanks for your input. >  > AEF  >      --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 14:55:50 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) C Subject: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server? 3 Message-ID: <oAuqi0kOlFg3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <3eh5GOJ2JH2u@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes: > G > Fanfold?  You mean high speed fan fold paper tape?  As opposed to the ? > low speed spool-fed yellow stuff that you'd use on an ASR33?    =    Yep.  Although I do recall students running around my high ,    school with white rolls from thier ASR33.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 20:30:33 -04003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> C Subject: Re: Can a satellite survive the reboot of its boot server? . Message-ID: <mdd8xk242mu.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  = koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   > > In article <mdd7izn92f9.fsf@panix5.panix.com>, Rich Alderson) > <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes:   J >> VAX was the first architecture from DEC^WDigital that did *not* supportL >> DECtape (which originated--in the form that was used on DEC equipment--on5 >> the PDP-1) on at least some members of the family.   E >    Was there any architecture prior to the VAX which didn't support H >    fanfold?  I saw DECtape spools on PDP-10, but I don't recall seeing >    fanfold on them.   H Paper tape was one of the boot media for the Model 166 (PDP-6) and KA-10G (original PDP-10) processors; it may have been possible to boot a KI-10 D (first to be called "DECsystem-10") from paper tape, also.  There isH unsupported code in Tops-10 (though not in Tops-20) for papertape readerK and punch on the KL-10; I think that the KS-10 (minicomputer implementation F of the architecture that used Unibus peripherals) does not support it.  J (I've spent the week building a customized Tops-10 for the PDPplanet 2065,J instead of the generic one we've been running, so I've had those bits pass  under my eyes real recently. :-)   --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:38:56 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: Cluster_Authorize question , Message-ID: <451D7650.BB1FA5B1@teksavvy.com>   etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote:  > ? > Two copies of the file is one possibility, but the overriding F > wqquestion I would have is why are you mucking about in the internal0 > contents of the cluster authorization file JF? >  > - Have a file that works. D > - Copy it to the system disks of the systems that need to join the
 > cluster.! > - Reboot them into the cluster.     D Yep. that is what I thought was needed , but it didn't work, hence IG looked into the contents of the file.  Turns out that it was a switch's F fault for not properly handling certain ethernet packets which cayused1 the cluster (and decnet and lat) to not function.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:18:37 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: Cluster_Authorize question , Message-ID: <451D7F98.D5DEBE38@teksavvy.com>   Baldrick wrote: ? >   00000000 00000000 yyyyyyyy 0000zzzz ................ 000000   D > I've replaced the data in the longwords with zzzzz and yyyyyyyy !!    F Looking at the dump now, I can see a lonely A lost in a sea of zeroes.F And you are right, the first 2 bytes do match my cluster group number.H Because my gorup number is 10 (line feed), there is no "junk" printed inD the ASCII version of the data, so it didn't draw my attention to nay@ data being present.  Mea Culpa. (or is it "My bad" these days ?)   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 14:30:40 -0700 From: amelia_airhead@yahoo.com3 Subject: Debugger GUI only working on some machines C Message-ID: <1159565440.391745.197700@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hello,  D   Three of us are attempting to use the debugger on our own machines and failing.   On our own machines:E   run theProgram.exe - The GUI flashes up on the screen and goes away  immediately.  ;   debug/keep - The GUI comes up with an information message 9       %DEBUG-I-VERSION: Expected VMSDEBUG.DAT version: 72 @       We are running version 7.2, the vmsdebug.dat in the system default directory doesE       say it's version is 72.  Does this mean it can't find the .DAT?  I'm not finding a 2       definition in the help messages for VERSION.  B       Entering "run theProgram.exe" in the GUI, it gives two error	 messages, 7       %DEBUG-W-NEEDMORE, unexpected end of command line B       %DEBUG-E-NOPROCESSES, the current command is targetted at an empty process set G     Help messages gives no useful information on resolving the warning.    The one machine it does run on: G   We all rlogin to one machine and set display back to our own host and 	 the above G   program runs just fine in the GUI debugger.  It's using the same .DAT  (diff between the G   two showed no differences), the logicals look the same, the .exes and  their privileges look D   the same.  Same on the above, no quotas.  The only one thing I saw different was the working ?   machine has VMS_ACMESHR_DEBUG.  Unfortunately I could find no  information on this    exe.  D   The only error messages I'm finding are in DT's errorLog regarding errors modifying MBA devices. F Is there some other log I can find information on why the debugger GUI is not saying up on our 
 own machines?   	   Thanks,    Amelia   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:26:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 7 Subject: Re: Debugger GUI only working on some machines , Message-ID: <451DC7B7.154D9CF9@teksavvy.com>   amelia_airhead@yahoo.com wrote: G >   run theProgram.exe - The GUI flashes up on the screen and goes away  > immediately.   $SHOW LOG DBG*   then  $ $ HELP/LIBRARY=SYS$HELP:DBG$HELP.HLB   and choose "Logical Names"  H Make sure any debugger logical name is properly defined/undefined. Also,E you may wish to define a SYS$OUTPUT/SYS$ERROR to point to a file that = might record some messages which would otherwise not be seen.   D It could be some font that is missing on your X terminal, or perhapsB DEUG using unconventional X commands which fail on your X terminal causing it to die.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:02:13 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: ES40 NICs: Message-ID: <F6CdndUKfIs6woDYnZ2dnUVZ_oqdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Tom Linden wrote:   E > I need to get a couple of Ethernet contollers.  Anybody have a list  > of compatible boards?  > 7 > Also I can confirm that ATI Radeon 7500 works but not  > ATI RAGEXL >    DE500-AA work fine!   C If you are short of slots, you can get a combo Ethernet-SCSI card.  G There might even be a dual or quad Ethernet card though I don't recall  2 seeing or hearing of such in the DEC/CPQ/HP world.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:09:59 GMT % From: Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hp.com>  Subject: Re: ES40 NICs/ Message-ID: <XjdTg.497$bX6.57@news.cpqcorp.net>   2 Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:A > There might even be a dual or quad Ethernet card though I don't ; > recall seeing or hearing of such in the DEC/CPQ/HP world.   F In the abstract, HP has shipped both quad 100BT (Tulip-based) and quad@ GbE (cannot recall if it was Broadcom or Intel in that one - theD dual-port is Intel) cards.  I belive the quad GbE is still shipping.B There are also a number of Gig/SCSI and Gig/FC combo cards (1x1 orD 2x2).  Whether they would "work" in an ES40 under a given OS I've noD idea.  The cards shipped in the context of the HP 9000 and Integrity systems.  
 rick jones  6 Supported, known to work	   -> warm fuzzies all around@ Supported, not known to not work   -> an HPite may be in trouble9 Supported, known to not work	   -> an HPite is in trouble ? Unsupported, known to work	   -> lucky today, unlucky tomorrow? G Unsupported, not known to not work -> there but for the grace of Turing B Unsupported, known to not work	   -> no, it was not deliberate ;-)   --  = portable adj, code that compiles under more than one compiler F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)D feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:54:37 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com>  Subject: Re: ES40 NICs+ Message-ID: <4o58jrFd4mjhU1@individual.net>   ( On 2006-09-29 19:32, "Tom Linden" wrote:  E > I need to get a couple of Ethernet contollers.  Anybody have a list  > of compatible boards?  >  > [...]   H According to the 31-Jul-2003 (PDF) QuickSpecs the following cards should work (OpenVMS v7.2-2 minumum):  F - 3X-DE602-BB (dual 10/100 Ethernet, RJ-45, max. of 4 cards supported)A - 3X-DE602-TA (dual 10/100 Ethernet, RJ-45, add-on daughter card)   L TIMA kits may be required for various v7.2-x and v7.3-x versions of OpenVMS.   Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:23:12 -0400 < From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" <dbturner@islandco.com> Subject: Re: ES40 NICs0 Message-ID: <12hqsl72bm5o8b2@news.supernews.com>  * 3X-DE600-AA (newer) 1 port 10/100 PCI  $95% 3X-DE602-AA (newer) 2 Port 10/100 PCI * 3X-DE602-BA (even newer) 2 Port 10/100 PCI8 DE500-BA Good old standard (works in everything) PCI $55< IC-DE504-CA 64 Bit 4 Port Intel Based (same chip as DE600-aa       --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   5 "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> wrote in message # news:op.tgnhnqsxtte90l@hyrrokkin... E > I need to get a couple of Ethernet contollers.  Anybody have a list  > of compatible boards?  > 7 > Also I can confirm that ATI Radeon 7500 works but not  > ATI RAGEXL >  > --  G > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------   Date: 29 Sep 06 16:37:37 EDT) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook)  Subject: Re: ES40 NICs! Message-ID: <CfFWyVAIJG9o@wvnvms>   a In article <4o58jrFd4mjhU1@individual.net>, Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> writes: * > On 2006-09-29 19:32, "Tom Linden" wrote: > F >> I need to get a couple of Ethernet contollers.  Anybody have a list >> of compatible boards? >>   >> [...] > J > According to the 31-Jul-2003 (PDF) QuickSpecs the following cards should  > work (OpenVMS v7.2-2 minumum): > H > - 3X-DE602-BB (dual 10/100 Ethernet, RJ-45, max. of 4 cards supported)C > - 3X-DE602-TA (dual 10/100 Ethernet, RJ-45, add-on daughter card)  > N > TIMA kits may be required for various v7.2-x and v7.3-x versions of OpenVMS. >     The DE602-BB is a Compaq NC3134.? The DE602-TA (daughter card for the NC3134) is a Compaq NC3135. ) The single port DE601 is a Compaq NC3123.   A We have used the generic Compaq cards in both Alpha 4100 and DS20 E systems without problems.  Buying generic cards (NCxxxx) is generally C a lot cheaper than trying to buy DExxx cards.  The one actual DExxx 7 card we have has a sticker with the NCxxxx part number.      George Cook  WVNET    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 00:06:58 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: ES40 NICs9 Message-ID: <CdydnRObLoLGdoDYnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > Tom Linden wrote:  > F >> I need to get a couple of Ethernet contollers.  Anybody have a list >> of compatible boards? >>8 >> Also I can confirm that ATI Radeon 7500 works but not
 >> ATI RAGEXL  >> >  > DE500-AA work fine!   . I think it's the -BA that works well with VMS.  I I've got several of them sitting on the shelf.  Didn't want to part with  - them, but now I'm starting to wonder why not.   K > If you are short of slots, you can get a combo Ethernet-SCSI card. There  J > might even be a dual or quad Ethernet card though I don't recall seeing - > or hearing of such in the DEC/CPQ/HP world.   < There is definitely a quad card.  Don't remember the number.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:05:53 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> Subject: HP Layoffs ) Message-ID: <op.tgnor3u4tte90l@hyrrokkin>   = Digital Enterprise,  I wonder does that have anything to with 
 D I G I T A L    EE Times: Latest News ) Report: Intel ups layoffs at Folsom plant     
 Spencer Chin	  EE Times (09/29/2006 12:32 PM EDT)   G MANHASSET, N.Y. ? Semiconductor supplier Intel Corp. has announced it   F would lay off an additional 159 workers from its facility in Folsom,  F Calif. The company will now lay off a total of 350 at Folsom through  I mid-2007, according to an online report quoting the Sacremento Business   G Journal. According to the report, Intel (Santa Clara, Calif.) employs   G 7,000 in Folsom, 2,000 in information technology, whose functions are   K headquartered at the location. Of the 159 new layoffs in Folsom, 117 will   G come from the information technology department, effective the end of   L October. The remaining jobs to be cut will come from the company's Digital  I Enterprise, technology and manufacturing, and Intel Capital groups over   L the next year, the report said. An Intel spokesperson was quoted as saying  H the layoffs are redeployments, meaning workers can elect for immediate  L separation or look for other work at Intel. If they don't find work in two  K months their jobs will be terminated. Intel is Folsom's largest employer,   J said Joe Luchi, Folsom's economic development director, the report said.  I The reductions are part of Intel's effort to restructure the struggling   I semiconductor supplier to improve efficiency and generate cost savings.   G Intel announced earlier in the month it would cut 10,500 jobs through   L layoffs and attrition, through mid-2007. The moves are expected to save $2   billion next year.   --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 11:40:34 -0700< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>- Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET B Message-ID: <1159555234.633021.268990@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  # I went for a Gibabit, not Gigafast. ? D-Link DGS-2208 8-port 10/100/1000 Desktop Switch. Seems great! : $40 @ newegg -$10 rebate (until tomorrow ?!) +$7 shipping.   Hein.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:10:45 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)- Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET $ Message-ID: <efjr3l$2uq$8@online.de>  ; In article <WycTg.485$zO6.391@news.cpqcorp.net>, Rick Jones  <rick.jones2@hp.com> writes:    F > Aren't the four (?) LAN ports on the typical home router supposed toA > be "just like" a four port switch, and only if you want to have E > traffic go from them to/from the "WAN" port does one have "routing"  > involved?    Normally that's the case.   G > Still, putting everything on a small dedicated switch like one of the E > new ProCurve 1800's or the old 408's :) and then having a link from H > that to the home router (one of the LAN ports) might not be such a bad > idea.    That's the way I do it.    ------------------------------   Date: 29 Sep 2006 19:18:37 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET + Message-ID: <4o59sdFd4k8sU1@individual.net>   $ In article <efjqrv$2uq$4@online.de>,S 	helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: E > In article <06092823584584_2020028F@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org  > (Steven M. Schweda) writes:  >  >>    That's "Lo, and behold!".  > J > Parent (looking at child's drawing of a nativity scene, and noticing an 4 > extra person): And who's this character over here? > ' > Child: That's Hark, the herald angel.   @ And out in front of the stable was a jet with Pontius the Pilot.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:06:39 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)- Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET $ Message-ID: <efjqrv$2uq$4@online.de>  C In article <06092823584584_2020028F@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org  (Steven M. Schweda) writes:    >    That's "Lo, and behold!".  H Parent (looking at child's drawing of a nativity scene, and noticing an 2 extra person): And who's this character over here?  % Child: That's Hark, the herald angel.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:07:40 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)- Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET $ Message-ID: <efjqts$2uq$5@online.de>  = In article <efiu0c$sm0$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>, "Richard Brodie"  <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes:   : > "Steven M. Schweda" <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message . > news:06092823584584_2020028F@antinode.org... > K > >   A switch should not be thinking about any of the protocols.  That's a  > > job for a router.  > F > Which is a good reason for getting a switch and not a Netgear RT314;< > or at least not trying to cluster over a poorly documented) > consumer grade IP firewall/router box.    H Have you actually had any bad experiences?  Many of these things have a D hub or switch built in.  These things are so low level that I doubt D anything could be wrong, except of course if there are actual loose 
 wires etc.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:10:00 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)- Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET $ Message-ID: <efjr28$2uq$7@online.de>  B In article <1159546057.849224.49600@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk writes:    I > Cheap 4-port and 8-port switches that really are switches are available  > from your local supplier    H I've had good experience with a NETGEAR 10 Mb/s hub, and am thinking of D replacing it with a similar NETGEAR 10/100/1000 Mb/s switch.  Costs # about EUR 80 for one with 16 ports.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:25:39 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)- Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET % Message-ID: <efjrvj$2uq$10@online.de>   B In article <4o59sdFd4k8sU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:   ! > >>    That's "Lo, and behold!".  > > L > > Parent (looking at child's drawing of a nativity scene, and noticing an 6 > > extra person): And who's this character over here? > > ) > > Child: That's Hark, the herald angel.  > B > And out in front of the stable was a jet with Pontius the Pilot.  C Right.  He plays an important role during the flight to Egypt.  :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:58:27 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET , Message-ID: <451D7AE0.76E8C728@teksavvy.com>   mckinneyj@saic.com wrote: C > The Netgear RT314 is a really a router - not a switch. LAT is not D > routable. And, apparently the RT314 doesn't know DECnet - probably& > doesn't know anything except TCP/IP.    E However, the 4 ports are advertised as a switch that also connects to 4 the router. (with a 5th port going to the internet).  B Since people have used that device to link PCs together, I have toF assume it is capable of switching more than just TCPIP packets. I know+ it switches Appletalk packets with success.   Q My guess was more with respect to broadcast addresses not being handled properly.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 15:01:22 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET 3 Message-ID: <nTsYNO1CzRIA@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <WycTg.485$zO6.391@news.cpqcorp.net>, Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hp.com> writes:  F > Aren't the four (?) LAN ports on the typical home router supposed toA > be "just like" a four port switch, and only if you want to have E > traffic go from them to/from the "WAN" port does one have "routing"  > involved?   <    I have one such NAT Router.  Since it was sold as such, I@    always assumed it was a router, and assumed it only did IP.  @    The only one of those four ports I'm using connects it to my C    switch, which handles IP, DECnet, LAT, SCS, Appletalk, ... just      fine, like a switch should.  2    Both meant for home use, and both fairly cheap.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:40:09 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET , Message-ID: <451D84A3.672BB876@teksavvy.com>   etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote:  > D > It's a router, not a switch.  Routers that don't know about DECnetH > don't know what to do with it so do nothing.  LAT isn't routable.  MOP > isn't routable.     H MOP worked perfectly fine on that switch.  And with VAXCLUSTER set to 0,< the satellite node was able to access the boot node's disks.  D With VAXCLUSTER set to 2, it would start the boot with MOP fine, butH then jam in the boot. (either some message about SYS$INPUT not found, orF a message about not being able to mount the system disk. This happenedH between the XFC warning messages (expected because of the default SYSGEN@ parameters), and the "Installing required known images" section.  J (this was with SA_STARTPUP.COM, the startup file for the installation CD).  G The old IO users manual has a good section on ethernet and I'll have to B take a minute to review how broadcast packets work. (I know of theG FF:FF:FF:FF:FF packets, but not of the other types of multicast which I ( suspect that swicth doesn't know about).   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:46:28 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET ( Message-ID: <efk0n4$sn4$1@pcls4.std.com>  C In article <1159535065.044849.149330@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,  mckinneyj@saic.com writes:    C > The Netgear RT314 is a really a router - not a switch. LAT is not D > routable. And, apparently the RT314 doesn't know DECnet - probably& > doesn't know anything except TCP/IP.  J Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure I clustered two alphastation 200sE using the local ports of an RT314 in the past.  It was taken out by a D lightning storm and I replaced it with something else so I can't try it now.   F Of course, I'd expect nothing but TCPIP to get through to the wan port of any NAT router.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:53:16 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET , Message-ID: <451D87B5.6EE044E2@teksavvy.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: H > I'm not a network expert, but I always thought that a switch and a hubJ > are "logically" the same.  A switch is more efficient since most packets. > go only to the addresses they need to go to,    3 Knowing where packets need to go is the issue here.   H If machine1 conected to port 1 send a packet "from" ethernet A, then theG switch knows that any packet destined for "ethernet A" should go out to  port 1 only   F But if "ethernet A" is meant to be a broadcast packet, the swicth willF just bounce the packet back to port 1 because its table says that this& ethernet address is handled by port 1.  E And if you have a network monitor on port 2, it will not see the full B traffic going through the switch, unless you have a managed switchD capable of making that port a promiscuious port that see everything.3 (shouldn't that have been called a "voyeur" port ?)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:47:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET , Message-ID: <451D8653.64D23DED@teksavvy.com>   Rick Jones wrote: G > Still, putting everything on a small dedicated switch like one of the E > new ProCurve 1800's or the old 408's :) and then having a link from H > that to the home router (one of the LAN ports) might not be such a bad > idea.   C My  hub was full. Had a free port on the switch that is part of the  router. So I used it.   G My fall back, which is now in effect is to use my old thinwire ethernet H cable (still in place) to link my 3100-30 workstation to the back of theD hub (has a thinwire connector) and then use the twisted pair for the( Alpha (the alpha will replace the 3100).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:02:25 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET , Message-ID: <451D89D9.D2E65939@teksavvy.com>   Michael Moroney wrote:H > Of course, I'd expect nothing but TCPIP to get through to the wan port > of any NAT router.    E To be pedantic, those consumer routers can do TCPIP or PPPoE on their D WAN ports. Since we are talking about the protocol field on ethernet" packets, this makes a difference.   E You mentioned having a cluster on the switch side. Was it one machine 
 per port ?  G For me, I had 3 machines on one port and 1 machine on another port (for G VMS stuff). Perhaps having 3 machines (6 ethernet addresses (hardware + C decnet) filled it table and the switch didn't know about additional  broadcast addresses etc.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 22:21:49 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET ( Message-ID: <efk69t$h8i$1@pcls4.std.com>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    >Michael Moroney wrote: I >> Of course, I'd expect nothing but TCPIP to get through to the wan port  >> of any NAT router.   F >To be pedantic, those consumer routers can do TCPIP or PPPoE on theirE >WAN ports. Since we are talking about the protocol field on ethernet # >packets, this makes a difference.    A Theoretically, when using PPPoE, it could be useful to let non-IP / traffic through.  No idea if that was the case.   F >You mentioned having a cluster on the switch side. Was it one machine >per port ?   D It was only two VMS systems so only two ports had SCS traffic.  BothG Alphastation 200s.  The power supply in 1 died (very common problem) so D I just ran a single node for a while.  The power supply in the otherD died (told you it was a common problem!) but this time I modified an= ATX power supply and got it running but that's another story.   E I have another NAT router now and clustering does work over the local  ports.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:31:43 -0700 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>- Subject: Re: Hub vs Switch : SCS, LAT, DECNET : Message-ID: <vLqdnef6b9NRS4DYnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@comcast.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    (snip)  I > The old IO users manual has a good section on ethernet and I'll have to D > take a minute to review how broadcast packets work. (I know of theI > FF:FF:FF:FF:FF packets, but not of the other types of multicast which I * > suspect that swicth doesn't know about).  A Multicast is fairly fundamental to ethernet, so I would really be - surprised if any switch didn't know about it.    -- glen    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:58:37 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 2 Subject: Re: Intel to add new instructions to 8086: Message-ID: <F6CdndoKfItSw4DYnZ2dnUVZ_oqdnZ2d@comcast.com>   etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote:    > JF, 3 > You've got an Alpha now, you can come up to date. I > 8086 is not a 64-bit architecture.  It's not even 32-bit.  It's 16-bit. D >  8086 isn't made any more.  There is no current line of servers or/ > desktops or laptops that use 8086 processors.  >  > IT'S IA-32 or IA-32e >  > Steve  > 0 > JF Mezei used his own notation style to write: >   7 You really don't know a hopeless case when you see one!    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:43:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: Intel to add new instructions to 8086, Message-ID: <451D8555.3D3AE8D9@teksavvy.com>   etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I > 8086 is not a 64-bit architecture.  It's not even 32-bit.  It's 16-bit.  >  8086 isn't made any more.    E Alpha wasn't the official name, it was AXP,. Yet, it stuck because it H was the first word used to denote that architecture. It stuck to a pointD that DIgital did whatever it took to make it legally possible to useG "Alpha" as the name. And to this day, we call it Alpha instead of 21x64  or AXP.     H X86 is just an abbreviation for the 8086 architecture which included the 8086, 80186, 80286 , 80386 etc.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:09:39 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 2 Subject: Re: Intel to add new instructions to 80869 Message-ID: <OoednXf_F4ExOIDYnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote:  >  >> JF,4 >> You've got an Alpha now, you can come up to date.J >> 8086 is not a 64-bit architecture.  It's not even 32-bit.  It's 16-bit.E >>  8086 isn't made any more.  There is no current line of servers or 0 >> desktops or laptops that use 8086 processors. >> >> IT'S IA-32 or IA-32e  >> >> Steve >>1 >> JF Mezei used his own notation style to write:  >> > 9 > You really don't know a hopeless case when you see one!   I It's worse than that.  He's doing it to annoy everyone else.  Now can we   break out the aluminum bats?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:51:29 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply); Subject: Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering $ Message-ID: <efjpvh$2uq$1@online.de>  5 In article <451C41D9.E3E3D384@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:     > Guy Peleg wrote:B > > When I joined engineering I had 7 years of experience with VMS > G > So, instead of giving you a nintendo, your parents gave you a VMS box  > when you were 11 ? > % > :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)   G When he was about 5, I set up a VT320 for my son with a captive account E which went into an menu where he could send me an email or read email E from me, write a text (both with EDT), check the time of day etc.  He H was quite keen on it for a while.  (Alas, he has now moved on to 50 CentH etc.)  A few months later, when he sat at his mother's PC for the first H time, his first remark was "but her PC doesn't have a proper keyboard!".   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 14:52:35 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ; Subject: Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering 3 Message-ID: <pi8JqQ0RyCYY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <4o4iepFcsa3vU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > I > And while arguing about being President (why anyine would actually want I > to is beyond my ability to comprehend!) is fun, I was talking about the H > much more common form.  Where you say "You can't have that job becauseG > your too old." with no consideration to ability to perform the duties @ > required of the job.  (Hint: It's in Title 10 of the US Code.)  C    Where there's a conflict between two Federal Laws, generally the B    latter supercedes the earlier.  But sometimes the more specific    supercedes the more general.   (    Have fun with it in a court near you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:47:11 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ; Subject: Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering , Message-ID: <451D783D.78D7C44D@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:H > much more common form.  Where you say "You can't have that job becauseG > your too old." with no consideration to ability to perform the duties @ > required of the job.  (Hint: It's in Title 10 of the US Code.)    G The problem is that often, the requested salary is proportional to age. D Older people have higher salary expectations versus a new university
 graduate.   H So, a company can save money by letting go of a senior person and hiringF a new graduate to replace him. (At least from the bean counter's point	 of view).    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:55:14 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> ; Subject: Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering : Message-ID: <NsGdnTvTFNLbC4DYnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@comcast.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > H >>much more common form.  Where you say "You can't have that job becauseG >>your too old." with no consideration to ability to perform the duties @ >>required of the job.  (Hint: It's in Title 10 of the US Code.) >  >  > I > The problem is that often, the requested salary is proportional to age. F > Older people have higher salary expectations versus a new university > graduate.  > J > So, a company can save money by letting go of a senior person and hiringH > a new graduate to replace him. (At least from the bean counter's point > of view).   E And then the new guy makes a little mistake, sticks something in the  D middle of a file that should have been placed at the end and breaks C BACKUP!  ISTR that just exactly that happened about four years ago.   F The old farts have made their mistakes already!  They know what to do  and what not to do.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 15:09:44 -0700) From: "DaveG" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> ; Subject: Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering C Message-ID: <1159567784.273605.178070@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote:  >  > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > J > >>much more common form.  Where you say "You can't have that job becauseI > >>your too old." with no consideration to ability to perform the duties B > >>required of the job.  (Hint: It's in Title 10 of the US Code.) > >  > >  > > K > > The problem is that often, the requested salary is proportional to age. H > > Older people have higher salary expectations versus a new university
 > > graduate.  > > L > > So, a company can save money by letting go of a senior person and hiringJ > > a new graduate to replace him. (At least from the bean counter's point
 > > of view).  > F > And then the new guy makes a little mistake, sticks something in theE > middle of a file that should have been placed at the end and breaks E > BACKUP!  ISTR that just exactly that happened about four years ago.  > G > The old farts have made their mistakes already!  They know what to do  > and what not to do.   E I remember the BACKUP issue from a few years back and I also remember G Andy G. saying he was gonna find a heavy blunt instrument and visit the / (probably younger) person who made the mistake.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:19:21 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> ; Subject: Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering : Message-ID: <RPWdnTyl1vN2BoDYnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@comcast.com>   DaveG wrote:   > Richard B. Gilbert wrote:  >  >>JF Mezei wrote:  >> >> >>>Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >>>  >>> J >>>>much more common form.  Where you say "You can't have that job becauseI >>>>your too old." with no consideration to ability to perform the duties B >>>>required of the job.  (Hint: It's in Title 10 of the US Code.) >>>  >>>  >>> J >>>The problem is that often, the requested salary is proportional to age.G >>>Older people have higher salary expectations versus a new university  >>>graduate. >>> K >>>So, a company can save money by letting go of a senior person and hiring I >>>a new graduate to replace him. (At least from the bean counter's point  >>>of view). >>F >>And then the new guy makes a little mistake, sticks something in theE >>middle of a file that should have been placed at the end and breaks E >>BACKUP!  ISTR that just exactly that happened about four years ago.  >>G >>The old farts have made their mistakes already!  They know what to do  >>and what not to do.  >  > G > I remember the BACKUP issue from a few years back and I also remember I > Andy G. saying he was gonna find a heavy blunt instrument and visit the 1 > (probably younger) person who made the mistake.  >   % Isn't everyone younger than Andy? ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:37:27 -0500 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>; Subject: Re: More on the transitions at OpenVMS Engineering @ Message-ID: <craigberry-C871CC.18372729092006@free.teranews.com>  G In article <iO2dnYme0519_YHYnZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>, *  Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  I > Aside from the fact that one call-center flunky does not exactly equal  F > one core VMS developer anyway, there's clearly some double-counting J > going on here:  if it is actually true at all that the call centers are H > hiring 6 people for every VMS developer who gets the boot, it is very H > likely also true that the call centers are themselves firing around a K > half-dozen senior people in order to bring in those inexpensive newbies,  K > so the math that says the fired senior VMS developer is being 'replaced'  J > by 6 newbies conveniently ignores the other fired senior people who are 2 > *also* being 'replaced' by those same 6 newbies. > D > Not to mention the questions of exactly where those 6 newbies are H > located, or whether they're wholly dedicated to VMS or shared among a  > whole bunch of HP products.   D I don't know anything about double counting (or any other headcount H statistics), but there are a total of 8 OpenVMS-related jobs open in HP I Bangalore.  And it doesn't sound like they are looking for people with a  , decade or three of VMS internals experience:  I http://h10055.www1.hp.com/jobsathp/content/search/search.asp?Lang=ENen&ar " ea=IN&location=1100&#JobListAnchor  H Unwrap that, and when you get there, choose job function "engineering," * location, "India," and keyword, "openvms."  G In fact, unless I'm missing something, none of those jobs requires any  F VMS experience at all.  One of them is for someone who is supposed to @ be able to fix bugs in the TCP/IP stack and requires an overall   experience level of "0-1 years".  > The R & D group there also just interviewed a bunch of recent F graduates, though no specific OS's are mentioned in this announcement:  0 http://www.123eng.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4158   --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:43:16 -0700 4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>@ Subject: Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario% Message-ID: <1159558996.377063@smirk>    Ian Miller wrote: G > some way of submitting SPRs via the web site. Last time I submitted a H > SPR it was a three sheet form you had to type on - I would hope things > have moved on since then.   C I wonder what address (the mail stop in particular) one should mail ) an SPR to, if one were so inclined.   :-)    Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:34:31 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> @ Subject: Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario, Message-ID: <451D7547.CDEFC14D@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:I > I wasn't aware that there was a requirement to have a support agreement F > in order to file an SPR.  I'm willing to be corrected on this point.  G If you still have the paper/carbon based SPR forms, you could send them  without a support agreement.  C But if you wish to contact the CSC to warn them of a bug, they will E insist yu firt provide support number or be willing to pay the hourly A charge for talking to a support specialist who will take down the  details of the bug.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 14:57:02 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) @ Subject: Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario3 Message-ID: <53Qab57O8bAl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <1159534859.171541.174910@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net> writes:G > some way of submitting SPRs via the web site. Last time I submitted a H > SPR it was a three sheet form you had to type on - I would hope things > have moved on since then.  > A    Yeah, and I don't have any of those three sheet forms anymore.   >    It was almost the only time I would ask a secretary to type    something for me.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:12:20 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>@ Subject: Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario0 Message-ID: <E6fTg.510$DW6.273@news.cpqcorp.net>   Ian Miller wrote: G > some way of submitting SPRs via the web site. Last time I submitted a H > SPR it was a three sheet form you had to type on - I would hope things > have moved on since then.  > E It was more than three.  Five or seven if I remember correctly.  The  I yellow copy is the one that made it to the engineer.  I have a untouched  I SPR form in my office somewhere.  I have the yellow SPR sheet from a bug  H I submitted as a customer against the Pascal compiler that I got to fix + when I came to work on the Pascal compiler.    --   John Reagan 5 HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:08:29 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> @ Subject: Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenarioC Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0609291454100.785@localhost.localdomain>   ' On Fri, 29 Sep 2006, John Reagan wrote:    > Ian Miller wrote: H >> some way of submitting SPRs via the web site. Last time I submitted aI >> SPR it was a three sheet form you had to type on - I would hope things  >> have moved on since then. >>  A > It was more than three.  Five or seven if I remember correctly.    I have a stack of them here.  D Like John, I remembered that there were more than 3 sheets in form, G but the first one I looked at had exactly 3.  So I pulled one from the  ( bottom of the pile, and it had 7 sheets!   So here is the story:   F The SPR form with sheets and carbons is EN-01044-07-REV J (35C).  Its  seven pages are:  0     white      Administrative service group, sws     yellow     maintainer       pink       spr administrator'     goldenrod  customer acknowledgement      green      local DEC office $     blue       Maynard support group     white      customer file  G The carbon-less SPR form is EN-01044-07-REV K (9Q1).  Its three sheets   are:  !     pink       spr administration '     goldenrod  customer acknowledgement      white      customer file  B So it would appear that this is one case in which the bureaucracy G decreased over time.  But wait!  Here is a three-sheet carbon-less SPR  E form EN-01044-07-REV H (9Q1) which appears to be otherwise identical   to the REV K spr.    ??     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m6 G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)4 Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:23:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> @ Subject: Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario, Message-ID: <451D8EE5.316A1416@teksavvy.com>   Rob Brown wrote:G > The SPR form with sheets and carbons is EN-01044-07-REV J (35C).  Its  > seven pages are: > 2 >     white      Administrative service group, sws >     yellow     maintainer " >     pink       spr administrator) >     goldenrod  customer acknowledgement ! >     green      local DEC office & >     blue       Maynard support group >     white      customer file > H > The carbon-less SPR form is EN-01044-07-REV K (9Q1).  Its three sheets > are: > # >     pink       spr administration ) >     goldenrod  customer acknowledgement  >     white      customer file      I have a EN-01044-07-REV H (9Q1)  G Also carbonless, 3 pages. and on the back of each page are addresses to  send the SPR to.   USA:  
 SPR Center' Corporate Administrative Services Group 
 P.O. Box 1167  Alpharetta, GA, 30239-1167   Canada:  Digital Equipment of Canada Ltd  P.O. Box 13000 Kanata Ontario Canada K2K 2A6  G There is another address, given for "Remainder of General International $ District) (shoudln that be "Area" ?) Digital Equipment Corporation $ General International District - SWS 100 Nagog Park Acton, MA  01720-3499 
 United States   % There was no address for India (yet).    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:35:27 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> @ Subject: Re: OpenVMS support contracts for hobbyists: A scenario9 Message-ID: <AISdncSgsopkfoDYnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote:J >> I wasn't aware that there was a requirement to have a support agreementG >> in order to file an SPR.  I'm willing to be corrected on this point.  > I > If you still have the paper/carbon based SPR forms, you could send them  > without a support agreement. > E > But if you wish to contact the CSC to warn them of a bug, they will G > insist yu firt provide support number or be willing to pay the hourly C > charge for talking to a support specialist who will take down the  > details of the bug.   I Ok, then just ask them for a mailing address for SPRs.  If they give you  F one, then type up a description of the problem, and send this and any / supporting material, such as a crash dump, etc.   H If the mailing address is in India, just forget it and go buy a copy of ! windoz, Linux, or something else.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 14:53:54 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) H Subject: Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date3 Message-ID: <9twmd7mCCSMk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <1159532504.826448.25260@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> writes:  > H > How about without a service contract?  I guess service from HP will be! > available for at least 5 years?  > G    HP is not the only source of hardware service for VAX and Alpha.  In 7    fact I don't think any of our contracts are with HP.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:13:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> H Subject: Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date, Message-ID: <451D7E69.6F3211C2@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:J > I'd still prefer bribing him with a chocolate bar, but he's indicated he > won't stay bought.    G Since you mentioned you would put rat poison in the chocolate, I am not  sure the offer still stands.  > And now that the breath of workforce reduction at VMS has beenC highlighted to you, perhaps you will retract your "you're an idiot" E statement made at a time you thought I was fabulating just because of  one announced departure.  @ In terms of the use of "8086", I mentioned already that when VMSE engineering announces the nomenclature for what F$GETSYI("ARCH_NAME") H will return when running on the real industry standard , I'll stop using% "8086" to refer to that architecture.   * (Wondering if they will choose X86 or I86)   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Sep 2006 20:38:35 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)H Subject: Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date+ Message-ID: <4o5eibFcurvqU1@individual.net>   , In article <451D7E69.6F3211C2@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Dave Froble wrote:K >> I'd still prefer bribing him with a chocolate bar, but he's indicated he  >> won't stay bought.  >  > I > Since you mentioned you would put rat poison in the chocolate, I am not  > sure the offer still stands. > @ > And now that the breath of workforce reduction at VMS has beenE > highlighted to you, perhaps you will retract your "you're an idiot" G > statement made at a time you thought I was fabulating just because of  > one announced departure. > B > In terms of the use of "8086", I mentioned already that when VMSG > engineering announces the nomenclature for what F$GETSYI("ARCH_NAME") J > will return when running on the real industry standard , I'll stop using' > "8086" to refer to that architecture.  > , > (Wondering if they will choose X86 or I86)  > In light of the current (and very likely confinuing)herding of= experienced VMS Engineers away from HP I would think everyone ? could see what the chances of a further VMS port are.  Remember / what I said about the writing on the wall?  :-(    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 00:02:43 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> H Subject: Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date9 Message-ID: <CdydnRCbLoLDd4DYnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote:K >> I'd still prefer bribing him with a chocolate bar, but he's indicated he  >> won't stay bought.  >  > I > Since you mentioned you would put rat poison in the chocolate, I am not  > sure the offer still stands.  B Only after you indicated you would accept the bribe, but not stay I bought.  In some venues this would be considered breaking the terms of a  	 contract.   @ > And now that the breath of workforce reduction at VMS has beenE > highlighted to you, perhaps you will retract your "you're an idiot" G > statement made at a time you thought I was fabulating just because of  > one announced departure.  F I'm going to assume that you're referring to the post on "HoffmanLabs H Professional Services Availability" of 9/26.  I've done a Google search I on the archives for "an idiot" and while it wouldn't surprise me to find  A a post with such a claim, I didn't find anything with respect to  2 workforce reduction.  So from the referenced post:  C  > At the risk of speaking frankly, jf, that statement is downright   > idiotic.   ( Well it is JF, what else did you expect?  G Ok, the second statement is mine, but the first is William Webb.  Note  J that I don't call you an idiot, just question the expectations of another.  A In that post from me, I go on to pretty much agree with you, not  H disagree.  In truth, I am now convinced that VMS will be a cash cow for F a while, but has no future.  One does not 'gut' an excellent software J organization, for any reason, if they have any use for them in the future.  E I don't think I have anything to retract, in this instance, but your  B reading comprehension does appear in need of remedial improvement.  B > In terms of the use of "8086", I mentioned already that when VMSG > engineering announces the nomenclature for what F$GETSYI("ARCH_NAME") J > will return when running on the real industry standard , I'll stop using' > "8086" to refer to that architecture.  > , > (Wondering if they will choose X86 or I86)  E I'm wondering if you realize how much you irritate others using your  3 term, and also wondering if that is your intention?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 01:18:28 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> H Subject: Re: Options for the future of VMS systems after last order date, Message-ID: <451DFE12.5C32413F@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:H > Ok, the second statement is mine, but the first is William Webb.  NoteL > that I don't call you an idiot, just question the expectations of another.  G OK, I am sorry then.  Since you appear to be the champion of JF-bashing C here, I tended to automatically assume that statement had come from : you....  Seems you lost your exclusivity on JF-bashing...   F Anyone else taking you up on your offer to use aliminIum baseball batsH to reshape my head ?  :-) Maybe Gantanamo bay might be safer for me than the bootcamp :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 14:30:28 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) > Subject: Re: OSU HTTP Server System Info Disclosure Weaknesses3 Message-ID: <xDifOMa93kPC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <efjr8h$2uq$9@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: J > In article <1159527177.086119.42240@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Jose! > Baars" <peut@peut.org> writes:   > R >> > Also what is OSU 3.11 alpha ? - Although it's extremely old I wasn't aware of- >> > any version of OSU later than OSU 3.10a.  >>  E >> The OSU webserver running at OSU identifies itself as 3.11alpha, I  >> think; >> 3.10 was the last ever version that was really released.  >  > Yep. > D >        URL: http://www.ecr6.ohio-state.edu/www/doc/serverinfo.html  >      Server: OSU/3.11alhpa;UCX >   > The latest release seems to be > $ >    Linkname: http_server_3-10a.zipJ >    Filename: http://er6ad3.eng.ohio-state.edu/soft/http_server_3-10a.zip  B Is the implication that the developer should not test new versions before releasing them ?  --  N ==============================================================================0 DoD Instruction 8500.2 field test sites wanted -- 	http://www.LJK.com/LJK/8500_2_fieldtest.html N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Sep 2006 12:16:06 -0700 From: yyyc186@hughes.net. Subject: Re: Perl qx// broken with OpenVMS 8.xB Message-ID: <1159557366.253723.24040@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   #!/usr/bin/perl    use strict; 
 use warnings;    use Getopt::Long;    use FindBin; use lib "$FindBin::RealBin";   use VmsUtil;  - my $progname = VmsUtil->get_program_name($0);    my $help      = 0; my $interval  = 5; my $count_max = 0; GetOptions('help|h' => \$help,"            'i=i'    => \$interval,D            'c=i'    => \$count_max) || usage(VmsUtil->exit_failure); usage(0) if $help;   my $count = 0; my $interrupted = 0;# $SIG{INT} = sub { ++$interrupted };  my @lines = (); ? while (!$interrupted && (!$count_max || $count < $count_max)) {      if ($count) {          sleep $interval;C         print "\033[999D\033[K" . "\033[1A\033[K" x scalar(@lines);      } 0     VmsUtil->set_logical('SYS$OUTPUT', 'nla0:');/     VmsUtil->set_logical('SYS$ERROR', 'nla0:');      @lines = qx/@ARGV/; *     VmsUtil->delete_logical('SYS$OUTPUT');)     VmsUtil->delete_logical('SYS$ERROR');      print @lines; 
     ++$count;  }    exit;    sub usage {      my $exitval = shift;     my $fh = \*STDOUT;     $fh = \*STDERR if $exitval;      print $fh <<"EOH";! Usage: $progname [OPTIONS] -- CMD G Run a command repeatedly, deleting prior output before each invocation.   F   -i SECONDS    wait SECONDS seconds after each invocation (default 5),   -c COUNT      exit after COUNT invocations!   -h, --help    display this help  EOH      exit $exitval; }         ' $ perl rr$exe:do.pl @sys$login:test.com    $ @sys$login:test  This is a test     $ type sys$login:test.com # $ write sys$output "This is a test"      This broke with the OS upgrade.    VAX/VMS V8.2& This is perl, v5.8.6 built for VMS_AXP   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.536 ************************